Proof that GM builds CRAP!

[slownrusty]

Here is why we own Zs:

 

“A family friend has a Cadillac STS thats a few years old and just coming off warranty - now remember that this is pretty much the most expensive sedan that GM builds.

This year alone it has been in the shop for $3500 worth of repairs - mostly electronic sensors or electrical failure. No mechanic would touch it because of all of the electronics so the owners have to take it back to the Caddy dealer each time. Two weeks ago the electronically controlled tranny was stuck in 2nd gear. So the car gets towed to the dealer. The owners get the car back - bill:$1700! Then after two short days the driver's side door handle fell off in their driveway! So now the car is for sale - the door handle falling off was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back"

 

The Northstar might be a decent engine - but thats about it - rest of the car is crap!

 

So stick to your Zs gang!

 

Yasin

[SleeperZ]

I read a story on the internet about a bigger guy who could only fit into one or two of GMs biggest cars. He had innumerable problems with a brand new car, and his story of how he tried to get satisfaction curled my hair. Even if GM has quality issues, it wouldn't matter to me IF the manufacturer made the effort to correct the issues. From this guy's story, I would hesitate to buy a problem-free car from GM.

[Jay1970Z]

I have to disagree. I had a 93 STS for 3 years with the only problem being the a/c blower motor. The car did burn a lot of oil, but GM swears that that's normal. I loved that car, it was black with black leather, and that Northstar could really move that 2 ton beast. The car was big, luxurious and good looking even today. I used to drive about 30 miles an hour in it and wait for ricers to come flying by, then i'd crank up the stereo and show em whos boss. 0-60 under 7 seconds, and 1/4 miles of 14.7 are pretty awesome for a car that big. I loved that car, right up until my brother wrecked it last month and the insurance company totalled it, oh well they gave me very fair compensation

I realize that some people get a car loaded with problems, while other will get one that seems invincible. I guess I was one of the lucky ones

[randy 77zt]

the american car builders do there technical experiments on the luxury cars because they know they get traded in sooner.i work on fords at a ford dealer for a living.the problem with american cars is parts made to a certain price specification to make more profit on the car.about 90% of parts on car are built by subcontractors.guess what-the cheapest subcontractor gets to make the parts.like the sorry front brakes on a focus made in brazil.the foriegn content(like ford pick up frames hecho en mexico)makes me not give a **** about buying american.i buy the best product for what i am going to use it for.i just had a nissan tsuru(early 90s sentra) rented in cancun mexico for a week.ran the dog doo out of it (ebrake turns and donuts on a deserted beach) and it begged for more.

[Guest Tom Scala]

Gee,thats proof enough for me. I guess I'll have to get rid of my 96 120,000 mile Bravada & my 2000 Chevy Express work truck with 95,000 miles on it already now before they fall apart. They haven't given me any trouble yet, and neither did their GM built predecesors, but I guess I should have been smart & bought imports. Oops I did buy an import, I have a 2002 Toyota built Pontiac Vibe too. Well it was built in California but it's really a Toyota. Maybe if I put Toyota emblems on my trucks they'll last even longer

[Guest Tht1KSguy]

Well with the number of cars made in this country the law of large numbers dictates that there will certainly be some lemons along the way. I used to know a guy that had a Chevy Beretta and the drivers door fell clean off sitting at a stoplight. But, I also had one that I put 230k what i would consider very trouble free miles on. The only thing i ever did to that car were normal upkeep filters, tires, brakes, water pump, alternator and 2 clutches... ohh did i mention i used to bracket race the car.. probably made 300 passes. (That's where the clutches came in - broken sprug hubs) Finally sold the car when the synchros were wearing out. (i'm sure that wasn't caused by my constant speed shifting) I'm currently at 170k in my next daily driver a Cavalier which i've done absolutely nothing to but brakes, tires & filter changes. AND... my parents had a Lumina APV van that had 343k on it when the head gasket finally let go, overheated & cracked the block. It lived its life just the same w/ regular maintenence and obvious wear items like wheel bearings eventually. But I'm sure we've just been "lucky".

[SleeperZ]

My opinion is all manufacturers certainly have built some lemons. I feel that the US auto corporations have increased the quality of their cars, but what I think it comes down to is how they treat the customer AFTER the sale. I should immediately disqualify myself from this discussion now, as I've NEVER bought a new car. I don't want to drop my hard earned $$ on a machine that's not been tested, and I especially don't want to take my chances on a manufacturer who has had recent issues with customer support.

 

Give me a good selling model with a history of reliability, and I will buy one that's been in the field for a while without issues

[Pop N Wood]

I use to try to defend the quality of domestic cars. Trouble is every time you really get into it you run into someone that had a Chevy or Pontiac that went through more transmissions than spark plugs. I no longer entertain such discussions since you will never convice the former owner of a Pontiac Fiero or Chevy Vega that GM cars are reliable and well engineered.

 

I once talked my sister into buying an 1976 Oldmobile Starfire instead of a brand new Volkswagon Rabbit. I told her to not buy the Rabbit because it was the Rabbit's first year.

Needless to say my sister will never take auto advice from me again. That Starfire was such poorly designed and constructed car that as far am I am concerned GM's reputation will never be the same. I guess the Japanese save their experiments for home use and only export proven models.

 

GM has produce more than it's share of lemons. Anyone ever own a Citation? How about a car with the Oldmobile diesel? The Caddilac 4-6-8?

 

But I think my biggest complaint with GM cars is the quality of the interiors. Look at a japanese dash. Everything is nice and tight with simple knobs that stand the test of time. Then look at your basic (fill in the blank) American car. The dashes all rattle and all too often have these goofy switches that break off in your hand.

 

Flame suit on, but when it comes to quality complaints GM deserves a lot of what they get.

[tdab]

I agree about some cars just being lemons. I had an '88 Jetta GLI with the 16V motor and it ran great up until the day I traded it. It had 287K miles and the last few years the odometer only worked half the time. The car was traded with the original clutch and the 5sp shifted great. That car also had some of the best seats I have ever seen or sat in. They were power Recaro's that came from VW. I'm still kicking myself for not taking them out before I traded it. They gave me $1000 for it towards my RL.

 

I knew other Jetta's owners that had probs from the first few months and it went down hill from there. I guess I was just lucky

[RPMS]

Look in the Consumer Reports automotive guide to used cars and see what cars get much better than average repair ratings, and which get much worse than average. The Japanese cars have so many red dots (good ratings) that it looks like someone bled all over the page. Look to the American cars, and you'll see a sea of black and half black dots, signifying more repairs than average. American cars are getting better, but they're still not as reliable as their Japanese counterparts.

 

I can't understand why some folks insist that American cars on the whole are just as reliable as imports. It just ain't true, and I can show you any number of studies and publications that support this. There are indeed some random American vehicles that go forever on just oil and filter changes, but not nearly as many US cars behave that way as Japanese cars. Sure, after a while ANY car will break, but historically the MTBF (time between failures) of a Japanese car is greater than that of a US car. That's not my opinion, that's numerical fact.

 

If you want to buy American, more power to you. I admire you like I admire those who support public radio and their local PBS stations. But don't for an instant fool yourself into thinking that on average, domestic iron is as reliable as Japanese offerings. Statistically, it just ain't so. If you happened to be one of the people who have an American car with 250,000 miles on it and have never had an unscheduled repair, I'm very happy for you. It DOES happen. But not as often as with Japanese cars.

 

Do I feel guilty about not buying American? Yes. I sincerely wish my personal economic situation would allow me to buy a product from Detroit. But I can't afford to gamble that the car I buy *might* be reliable, and *might* not.

[Kevin Shasteen]

From my 12 years w/MIC (Motors Insuranc Corp.) my first 5 years were w/GMPP (General Motros Protection Plan) as a warranty adjuster.

 

In those first few years I learned that we, MIC, was a tax write off, for GMAC/GM. Each year each adjuster would receive a listing of all the prices for each New & Used Car Protection Plans.

 

Every year the prices of a protection plan for an Import Car was a fraction to that of an American Car. I remember one example specifically. I looked at Cadillac's most luxurious car & priced the most expensive protection plan...it was right at $2.5k. Then I looked at Infinity's finest & that exact same protection plan...it was only $300.00

 

Keep in mind these prices are dealer cost-and dont include the inflated profit the dealers thought they could get away with when selling it to a buyer.

 

That difference from $2.5k to $300 is a big difference; which just goes to show that even GMAC, who controls GMPP, has done their marketing and they know that the Import Cars will out perform the American Cars, in the long run.

 

In those first few years I also learned that when the American Cars are mfg'd w/a defect-they simply make a recall whereas if and when the Asian Mfg has a defect-they also have a recall, but the recall comes directly out of the pocket of the President of that Asian Mfg. This would be a good reason for the Asian cars to "Not Break Down" before its time.

 

Also, if you have looked at new cars now days-you will find that the Import Car Dealers dont even try to sell you a protection plan but the American Car Dealers cant wait to sell you a protection plan on top of the Bumper to Bumper Warranty....Hmmm? What could that Possibly Mean?

 

I will have to agree that on a whole, and for the long run, the Import/Asian cars will out perform the American Cars.

 

Does that mean that American Cars are junk? Well, not really. IMHO it means that the American Car Mfg & Dealers are into the Protection Plan business as a main money maker and no longer design their cars to run forever; instead they now design their cars w/engineered failures to occur in a timely fashion.

 

So, anyone out there thinking about buying an American Car had best purchase the best Protection Plan on top of the Bumper to Bumper Warranty..chances are you will need it. If this is what you mean about American Cars being junk-then I would agree.

 

Kevin,

(Yea,Still an Inliner)

[Guest zfan]

Yeah I tend to buy American cars but with the extended warranty and almost always get my money out of the warranty purchase and usually more.

 

GM is the worst and I will not own one period!!!!

 

Mike

[Guest zfan]

Forgot to mention GM stands for Garbage Made!

 

Mike

[Guest ScaryFast]

GMC....Generic Mechanical Crap

 

Ford...Fix or Repair Daily...Fuct Over Rebuilt Dodge

 

Pontiac...Poor old (not appropriate) thinks its a Cadilac

 

Jeep... just every else's parts

[denny411]

You are all forgeting that the big three are not the only domestic vehicles on the market. I know for a fact that the Accord,Civic and Oddessy minivans are all american made.As well as many Toyota, Mercedes, BMW and Nissan cars and trucks.

 

All of these manufacturers have have foundries and assembly plants in the US with all american employees, and at least as much of the parts of their cars is produced in the States as GM,FORD,and Chrysler.

[Guest Tom Scala]

Denny, don't bother trying to defend the domestics with facts. Just ignore first hand experience, go with the flow, & bash them with unsubstantiated rumors, third party heresy, and tales of 20 year old cars that fell apart. Go one better & get a "bulletproof" Mazda rotary to swap into your rusty er trusty Z, roll your windows down, and breath the glorious exhaust fumes from the superior aerodynamic design & swiss cheese metallurgy courtesy of Ma Nissan. It's the American way

[denny411]

My point is that all car makers produce the occasional lemon. The sign of a good company is how well they back up what they sell.

 

I hold no allegance to any specific car maker, but if I were asked what model of car I consider to be the all time worst. I would have to say any mid 80`s chrysler K body with the 2.2 or 2.5.

 

I would have to say that the majority of those were lemons

[Guest Anonymous]

are you making fun of rotary motors punk?

just kidding but in the rotarys defense as long as you keep oil in them and dont let it overheat they will last a long time. my old one has 190k on the original motor and is still going strong.

i am talking about the 79-85 Rx-7s the later 2 generations had their problems

[Guest zfan]

Thats funny Tom! I had a Toyota P/U and it was the biggest POS!!!!!! I do not like GM but you can find a lemon on any show room floor!

 

Mike

[RPMS]

Originally posted by Tom Scala:

Denny, don't bother trying to defend the domestics with facts. Just ignore first hand experience, go with the flow, & bash them with unsubstantiated rumors, third party heresy, and tales of 20 year old cars that fell apart.

Oh, come on. You can come up with a better argument than that. Sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "bla bla bla bla" won't convince anyone of your position.

 

You might want to go to your local library and check out the April 2002 edition of Consumer Reports. Look at the hard facts, then tell us why American cars IN GENERAL are anywhere near as reliable as their import counterparts. There are specific examples of statistically reliable American cars, but they are few and far between. I am happy that you have had good luck with the American cars you've owned. You are, unfortunately, in the minority.