Guest ON3GO Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 anybody do this? it seems like theres lots of oil pump failures and i dont want to take the risk on my Z's. i was thinking external unit but im sorta confused on how one could fab it up to make it work. could we just use teh reg oil pump and then also a external one for the turbo itself? any ideas you smart SOB's! mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 anybody do this?it seems like theres lots of oil pump failures and i dont want to take the risk on my Z's. That's a bit of an overstatement! I don't think there is a bunch of oil pump failures, but if you are sloppy in assembly you can make even the best designed pieces fail. The external pumps are readily available, do a search on "Dry Sump" oil systems on google, and you will find many many many sources. To keep it "wet sump" using an external pump, you block it off like you would with a dry sump (the old oil pump portion of the front cover) and plumb the suction into the pan like you would for the "ultimate wet sump external pickup" setup guys have been using for years. This bypasses the restrictive internal oil pickup gundrilling, and lets the strainer pick up oil from the bottom of the pan directly through a -10 braided line directly. But I think its a lot of work to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 All oil pumps must be checked before installing. And that includes new pumps, especially new pumps. Of the last 4 new pumps that I installed on my engines, all four were out of spec. Not enough clearance between the lid and the gears. The one that I didn't check, ate up the oil drive gear on the oil pump shaft and crank on my Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 BAM! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Datsun-Nissan-240Z-260Z-280Z-Oil-Pump-Adapter-Plate_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33710QQitemZ8028353116QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 thats pretty fricken cool! mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 BAM! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Datsun-Nissan-240Z-260Z-280Z-Oil-Pump-Adapter-Plate_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33710QQitemZ8028353116QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW That's not an external pump, that is a conversion for the stock pump tobypass the gundrilling in the block for supply and feeding oil to the engine. It still utilizes the stock pump, and stock pump drive. I was sniped by someone who has bought a trillion kids clothes, but not one engine part... Hmmmmmmmmm. The conversion for this without the pan can be had from NISMO for $270. It helps flow quite a bit, but still uses the stock pump. Telling you something about the stock pump! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 That's not an external pump, that is a conversion for the stock pump tobypass the gundrilling in the block for supply and feeding oil to the engine. It still utilizes the stock pump, and stock pump drive. Ahhhhh, I knew that from the add but didnt even put the two together. duh...brain fart on my part. I was sniped by someone who has bought a trillion kids clothes, but not one engine part... Hmmmmmmmmm. including this lovely faux zebra fur jacket.... classy classy http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6827565943&category=15641 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoeightythreez Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Not to be a wise-a$$ but technically the stock L28 pump is external. You don't need to disassemble the engine to remove it. (you don't even have to remove the timing cover, or the distributor if you're feeling lucky) It's also a very, very good piece. I don't know where you get you info but I've never heard of an L oil pump failing, excepting operator (no oil!) or installer (not checking clearance) error. I really don't think nissan would have kept the same basic oil pump over the over 25 years of continuous L-series production (it's easily that long if you count the NAPS-Z engines) if there were issues with it. There is a Nissan engine known for oil pump issues, though, which you may have heard about. It's called an RB26. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyZ Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 You're hardly a wise-ass when it takes you over 2 years to come back with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Frankly, the term he was thinking of was 'integral' not really external. The pump on the L-Series is integral, as opposed to external. While it may be 'external' to the oil pan, it's most definately not an 'external' when you use the proper terminology of 'integral'---which is the differentiation between an integral pump and an external like a Dry-Sump setup that is belt driven. Even now, there are dry sumps being worked up to be integral to the sump, so they are integral with the block assembly, while not really 'external' in either of the previous interations. And the run of the L-Series pump goes a bit further than the NAPS-Z, check out your local KA engine....Why do you think 'high volume, high pressure' L-Series pumps are still in the pipeline while all the other parts wither on the vine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlerMonkey Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Almost exact same systems the SCCA GT racers use in their datsun 510s but possibly with more flow rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Porsche SOHC 944T's have a seperate electric oil pump for the turbo and runs for 30 seconds after shutoff-thus reducing running cooldown time(saving gas...lol). Maybe one of those pumps could be employed on a L28ET to have more predictable oiling of the turbo. Also look at a LD28 main pully. It has a cogged gear for a belt to run the Mechanical fuel injection pump. I could see the pump pully being adapted in a dry sump L series with a hacked up front cover if the gearing ratios for the pullies are correct for a dry-sump pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyZ Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 I've often pondered using a 944T oil pump to circulate the oil before and after engine running - save gas, save engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlerMonkey Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 My question is why? Most turbo damage from lack of thought is done when the car is cold. Most oil passing is the result of a clogged return line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Purple240zt Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Why? to keep oil from coking the bearing and ruining the turbo. That said, I would want to be able to keep coolant moving during cool down as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlerMonkey Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I rebuild plenty of high mileage turbos and the only coking of the bearing I see happens in the brief time between the turbo drain becomes clogged and the turbo removed for repair during which time a volume of oil is trapped in the turbo which ensures the oil will sludge/coke/ash....etc because it has no place to go. It's very hard for a turbo to pass oil unless there is pressure in the return line whether from excessive blow by or from a clogged or restricted return. 90% of the ones I have seen have chunks of carbon/coke accumulate at the 90% angle on the oil return tube where it meets the pan with the turbo above being pretty clean. You can be creative in your water routing to take advantage of convection which is how early cars cooled the entire engine. I did this on a maxima in which I rebuilt a very high mileage Z31 turbocharger that had a crack spreading from the wastegate hole 1/3 the way around the housing with nothing more than replacing the bearings (re-used seals) and it's running fine 40,000 miles later. I don't sit in the car but instead turn it off and leave right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_furious Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 I'm posting this here because it seems relevant, although it does track in a different direction. Tony, you mentioned difficulty in replacing the stock pump. I'm wondering if I should replace mine since I'm having low pressure issues with my motor right now and I've had a pump fail before(pressure is fine at startup, but after the motor is warm, pressure is about 2/3rds of what it normally is). How difficult is it to replace a pump? Can I do it myself without too many issues, or should I leave it to an experienced mechanic? I'd like to just order a new one and swap the pumps curbside if possible. ...any thoughts on the pressure issue? Do I have a bad pump, or is it something else? I recently had my stock fuel pump fail(sprayed fuel all over the engine bay from between the body and top cover) and I'm wondering if it thinned out the oil by leaking into the crankcase. I assume the fuel would eventually burn/evaporate off, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 "Tony, you mentioned difficulty in replacing the stock pump." Did I? 10psi at 1000rpm, roughly 10 psi per 1000 rpm means 3-5psi at idle speed of 500 is fine, over 3000rpms, pressure usually above 45-60psi. Verify with mechanical gauge. That's all I can find. Nothing about difficulty replacing the stock pump, just that generally it's not necessary. These cars are NOTORIOUS for bad sender units on the stock oil gauges, don't believe anything the stock gauge says. Use a REAL gauge with a large-bore tube to monitor pressures when making decisions on oiling systems. "Bearing Clearance" is a function of engine builder preference as well. There are many people who use high-flow pumps and larger bearing clearances for horsepower and safety margin. I know people who were told their engine bearings 'were shot' and needed replacing who simply upgraded to the Turbo-Auto Pump (higher flow) which moved oil pressure higher than it was....and that was over 100K miles ago (over 450K on the engine now!!!) Yeah, they probably did have excessive clearances, but you want to talk about an engine that revs freely...and as long as there's enough oil flow to keep the wedge intact in the bearings you should not have a problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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