OK...So Who Wants To Buy A Brand New S20 Engine...PicS!!

[slownrusty]

All yours for the princely sum for $17,600..4 bids

 

http://page6.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/f41915245

 

 

 

 

Yasin

[fastzcars]

Wow, I'd rather get a LS7 for that price and save myself 5 grand.

[JMortensen]

Wow, I'd rather get a LS7 for that price and save myself 5 grand.

Yeah, but just think of how much slower and more "authentic" you'd be with the S20...

[slownrusty]

You would have to agree that forced induction would make it pretty sweet though!!

 

Yasin

[Guest ON3GO]

You would have to agree that forced induction would make it pretty sweet though!!

 

Yasin

amen to that!

i had a video of a Z with a S20 engine with ITB's (not carbs i saw the fuel injectors) and man it sounded INSANE!

wish i still had that video damn computer!

 

mike

[HS30-H]

Yeah, but just think of how much slower and more "authentic" you'd be with the S20...

 

Because "faster" is always much "better" than "slower", right?

 

 

 

By the way, slownrusty - I see NO bids and FOUR days to go on the auction.

 

And wouldn't fit in an LHD version properly. It is also not "Brand New"......

[Guest ON3GO]

Because "faster" is always much[/i'] "better" than "slower", right?..

 

 

Ahh.. yeah it is.

where not talking about refinishing a car here where a slower method is better then faster.. were talking about cars.

 

mike

[HS30-H]

...... were talking about cars.

mike

 

So am I.

[JMortensen]

You realize what forum you're on, don't you Alan? Here people are mostly interested in faster.

[HS30-H]

Ask slownrusty why he posted the S20 engine auction then.

[JMortensen]

I don't suppose he put it up with the expectation that nobody would note that there are more powerful engines available for a lot less money. He probably just thought it was a cool engine, which it is. But in a cost vs hp analysis it pretty much sucks balls, even you would have to admit that.

[HS30-H]

I don't suppose he put it up with the expectation that nobody would note that there are more powerful engines available for a lot less money. He probably just thought it was a cool engine, which it is.

 

I think your first post on the thread was proof of the pudding for me. Bit of a cheap shot at the engine and those who might like to own one, in my opinion.

 

But in a cost vs hp analysis it pretty much sucks balls, even you would have to admit that.

 

Even me?

I tell people all the time that these engines are not all about horsepower. If you look at it purely from a perspective of horsepower figures, you are missing the point by a mile.

 

Do you ever go to 'Historic' race meetings ( rhetorical question ) and tell the owners of Ferrari GTOs, Dobra Daytona Coupes and Porsche 917s that their cars "suck balls" in a "cost vs hp analysis"?

 

Get my point?

[Guest ON3GO]

Do you ever go to 'Historic' race meetings ( rhetorical question ) and tell the owners of Ferrari GTOs' date=' Dobra Daytona Coupes and Porsche 917s that their cars [i']"suck balls"[/i] in a "cost vs hp analysis"?

 

Get my piont?

 

 

i tell ferrari owners all the time that there cars "sucks balls" when it comes to HP vs Money. mostly newer ferraris, but we do get owners that buy 328GTS's and think they can smoke anything! i do it to the owners that come into work and start acting like the King Sh!T saying there ferrari has this much HP and etc, and can beat this and that. not one ever really says "i bought it to road race it where its great at!".. plus i still thing its funny that the ferrari club here in town wouldnt let a few porsches (one being a RUF) race with them around texas world speedway... "its a ferrari event, and we dont want to lose to non-ferrari cars".. hahahahah

 

mike

[JMortensen]

I think your first post on the thread was proof of the pudding for me. Bit of a cheap shot at the engine and those who might like to own one, in my opinion.

I'm not a collector or a restorer. If that's your hobby that's fine and I won't pass judgement on you. But you are at hybridz.org where the focus is less on period correct restorations and more on making the Z as fast as you can make it. I don't think we have too many billionaires here, so the focus tends to be on how to do that most effectively and as cheaply as possible. To that end the S20 isn't even in the running for engine of choice.

Even me?

I tell people all the time that these engines are not all about horsepower. If you look at it purely from a perspective of horsepower figures' date=' you are missing the point by a mile.[/quote']

No, we're not. YOU'RE missing the point. The point of hybridz.org is to make these cars haul ***. We chop em up, flare em, section struts, and install bigger engines. If that's not the point for YOU, then YOU are in the wrong place.

Do you ever go to 'Historic' race meetings ( rhetorical question ) and tell the owners of Ferrari GTOs, Dobra Daytona Coupes and Porsche 917s that their cars "suck balls" in a "cost vs hp analysis"?

The Z is the car that I own because it is a CHEAP mass production sports car with decent aesthetic appeal and light weight. The reasons for owning a GTO or a Daytona Coupe are a little different. BUT--I do believe there was a guy back in the day who ran a GTO with a Chevy 350 in it. That's my kinda Ferrari racer. Keep what's good, improve what needs improving, and forget about what the purists think.

[HS30-H]

I'm not a collector or a restorer. If that's your hobby that's fine and I won't pass judgement on you.

 

Wasn't your first post on the thread a veiled 'judgement' on anybody who might find an S20 engine desirable? I don't think I misread the sarcasm there.

 

But you are at hybridz.org where the focus is less on period correct restorations and more on making the Z as fast as you can make it........

The point of hybridz.org is to make these cars haul ***. We chop em up' date=' flare em, section struts, and install bigger engines.[/quote']

 

So I say again - why was the S20 engine auction posted here in the first place? You already answered your own question of course; slownrusty probably posted it because he thought it was cool ( correct? ).

 

If that's not the point for YOU, then YOU are in the wrong place.

 

I'm building what some might call a 'Hybrid Z' ( you may not agree though ), and I also own another very rare car which happens to feature a long list of modifications. Most of those modifications are based around a 'period correct' theme ( my own personal focus ) and I certainly do not class myself as a 'Purist' or a 'Collector' ( which incidentally seem to be dirty words on this forum ). If you want to tell me that I don't belong on this forum, then you might need to start looking around you a little as I don't think I'm alone.

 

Does anybody ever tell you that YOU might be on the wrong forum when you post on classiczcars.com? I certainly hope not.

 

I also want to point out that this thread is in the 'Non Tech Board', which begs the question as to exactly what the 'Non Tech Board' exists for ( ? ).

 

....The reasons for owning a GTO or a Daytona Coupe are a little different. BUT--I do believe there was a guy back in the day who ran a GTO with a Chevy 350 in it. That's my kinda Ferrari racer. Keep what's good, improve what needs improving, and forget about what the purists think.

 

I'm willing to bet that the Chevy 350 installation was a case of Force Majeure rather than making it 'better'. More like he ran into line-of-supply and cost issues, and you'd probably think it churlish of me to wonder if he actually just felt more comfortable with KFC than Lobster Thermidore?

 

If he was "improving what needed improving" then I presume he got rid of that cart-sprung rear end too?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think there's any harm in knowing ( and caring ) a little bit about the history of these cars on a forum like hybridz.org. It seems to me that over the last few years there has been an increasing interest in subjects such as the more unusual Japanese home-market models and the period Japanese race cars, and I've seen this manifested on hybridz.org more and more lately. Do you want to dismiss this interest out of hand because it might be seen as some new strain of 'Purism'?

 

Again, I hope not.

[JMortensen]

Wasn't your first post on the thread a veiled 'judgement' on anybody who might find an S20 engine desirable? I don't think I misread the sarcasm there.

Yes I suppose you could look at it that way. Or you could say my first post was an unveiled judgement that you can get a lot more powerful engine for $17K.

So I say again - why was the S20 engine auction posted here in the first place? You already answered your own question of course; slownrusty probably posted it because he thought it was cool ( correct? ).

Maybe slownrusty thought people might like to see it. Maybe he thought it was funny that people would actually spend 17K on an 2L 6 cylinder engine. We should let him say why it was posted. Regardless, nobody has said it wasn't a cool engine, or it wasn't an interesting post. Nobody has said the engine was a POS. But when somebody else mentioned that you can buy a new LS7 for $5K less, that made a whole lot more sense to me, so I agreed.

I'm building what some might call a 'Hybrid Z' ( you may not agree though ), and I also own another very rare car which happens to feature a long list of modifications. Most of those modifications are based around a 'period correct' theme ( my own personal focus ) and I certainly do not[/i'] class myself as a 'Purist' or a 'Collector' ( which incidentally seem to be dirty words on this forum ). If you want to tell me that I don't belong on this forum, then you might need to start looking around you a little as I don't think I'm alone.

I'm not telling you YOU don't belong on this forum. I'm telling you that revelling in the marvel of the $17K 2L engine will probably get you some flak on this forum. I'm telling you that this forum will value hp over rarity. That's all. I encourage you to stick around. You might learn something...

Does anybody ever tell you that YOU might be on the wrong forum when you post on classiczcars.com? I certainly hope not.

Not yet. I know I've hurt some feelings when I dared to state the the 240Z wasn't the penultimate car and that it could use some improvement. I don't think that went over too well... buy you agreed with me IIRC.

I also want to point out that this thread is in the 'Non Tech Board', which begs the question as to exactly what[/i'] the 'Non Tech Board' exists for ( ? ).

It is for posting threads of a non technical nature which are not political or religious.

I'm willing to bet that the Chevy 350 installation was a case of Force Majeure rather than making it 'better'. More like he ran into line-of-supply and cost issues' date=' and you'd probably think it churlish of me to wonder if he actually just felt more comfortable with KFC than Lobster Thermidore?

 

If he was [i']"improving what needed improving" then I presume he got rid of that cart-sprung rear end too?

Ah, here it is. So he had to be an ignoramus to put a Chevy engine in. That unsophisticated American! How uncooth! Actually from what I remember reading about it a while back, I think he made more hp and found the Chevy more reliable. I don't know about the rear end. I would assume if he was smart enough to put a cheaper, more reliable, more powerful engine in he might have taken the time to put a better rear suspension in. But that wasn't the focus of the magazine article so I can't say. If he did change the rear suspension, then I would suppose he probably went faster at the races, so that would be a good thing.

I don't think there's any harm in knowing ( and caring ) a little bit about the history[/i'] of these cars on a forum like hybridz.org. It seems to me that over the last few years there has been an increasing interest in subjects such as the more unusual Japanese home-market models and the period Japanese race cars, and I've seen this manifested on hybridz.org more and more lately. Do you want to dismiss this interest out of hand because it might be seen as some new strain of 'Purism'?

No harm at all, and I welcome your posts about Nissan's history and their old race cars. Just don't be surprised or offended when people point out that they could have done the same or better with any number of inexpensive modifications that might "bastardize" the breed.

[fastzcars]

Obviously you like All kinds of engines, so do I. I like the fact that people can squeeze out so much hp from small motors. From the hondas to the rotaries. It's cool that people can do that. My statement about the motor wasn't to say it was a POS, it was merely that "I" wouldn't pay that much for such a motor. Sure if that particular motor was used in a historic/ land mark car, maybe someone would find value in it. But I'm here to get as much "value" per dollar spent. HS30-H , don't take things so personally.

[EZ-E]

In answer to this question, "Does anybody ever tell you that YOU might be on the wrong forum when you post on classiczcars.com? I certainly hope not." I think and I can actually go and get post from classizcars.com, where if you dont own a Z or let me correct myself here.

 

If you do not own at least a 69-78 Z then you will be chastised, if you dare mention doing something different, ie, SR20SDET swap or the like you will be turned away, or god forbid a V-8 swap.

 

There are a lot of individuals at classiczcars.com that make you feel unwanted because you want to go with something besided the inline six that came with the car.

 

Now that isnt to say that they arent fast and cannot be made to work wonders on the raod and on the track.

 

Hell even one of our members here has the fastest track time I believe or at least it was in his 240Z (John Coffey).

 

So to say that classiczcars.com is welcoming to other ideas or that they would say yeah thats a good route with anything other then the Nissan engine is a farce because most will say no.

 

Just an opinion.

[Top Fuel ZX]

To each his own. If I had the money, I'd take the LS7. But the S20 would be pretty sweet to put in a Z. Cars that appeal to me are ones that are different and/or modified. I would respect anybody who had the balls to modify a car beyond stock (cold air intake and cat-back exhaust doesn't count).

 

Why are we all here on hybridz.org? Isn't it because we all share the disease of modifying cars. Specifically, zcars? This site was founded on that belief. Other zcar forums might reject our ideas as EZ-E mentioned. Two years ago, I told a fellow Zer that I plan to put a v8 in a 280zx. He responded by saying, "now why on earth would you want to do a thing like that?" I've also been told that putting a LT1 in a zcar is "a waste of a chevy engine." Honestly, that's their opinion and not mine.

 

Sean

[HS30-H]

Yes I suppose you could look at it that way. Or you could say my first post was an unveiled judgement that you can get a lot more powerful engine for $17K.

 

You don't seem to have noticed that the Yahoo auction of the S20 engine by Rubber Soul has a starting value of ( roughly the equivalent of ) $17k, and that nobody has bid on it yet. This may be because it is somewhat overpriced in the current market, and Rubber Soul are simply doing a little 'fishing'.

 

I actually read quite a lot between the lines in your first post, and got the impression that you were being scornful of anybody who would want to own such a thing ( regardless of its price ), and you even seemed to be going so far as to damn their possible justification of it too. That was my impression. I didn't have you down as a philistine until then.

 

For what its worth, I have two S20 engines, and the combined costs of purchase, transport, rebuild ( inc. some performance upgrades ) for them will be way below what this auction starts at. So maybe I have a slightly improved bang-for-buck ratio, or just maybe taking an optimistic internet auction start price as gospel is a little bit zcar.com of you?

 

Maybe he thought it was funny that people would actually spend 17K on an 2L 6 cylinder engine.

 

If he does, I would recommend to him that he does not bother to go into the pits at the Monterey Historics........ ( but I suspect he actually has good taste - so it hopefully won't be a problem ).

 

I'm not telling you YOU don't belong on this forum. I'm telling you that revelling in the marvel of the $17K 2L engine will probably get you some flak on this forum. I'm telling you that this forum will value hp over rarity. That's all. I encourage you to stick around. You might learn something...

 

"Revelling in the marvel" I'll leave up to others who might be of that persuasion. In the meantime I will enjoy the engineering and quality of the S20, as well as its flavour - which means something to me.

Learning is a two-way street I think. If you pay attention to some of my posts even you might learn something that you were happy to know.

 

Ah, here it is. So he had to be an ignoramus to put a Chevy engine in. That unsophisticated American! How uncooth!

 

Whoah there. Don't pin that one on me here. Not justified. I simply implied that it was more than likely not a case of re-engineering the car for the pure sake of it. If my hunch is correct ( and I know a little about racing in the Sixties and Seventies ) then the GTO probably got fitted with the SBC for reasons of pocket-book limitations rather than anything else. It happened over here ( in England ) too, and there were plenty of 'specials' and low-volume racers such as Listers, Lolas and Chevrons that used American V8 engines for good reason.

 

Why bother to play the "unsophisticated American" implication on me? I don't deserve having that thrown at me. You might notice me disagreeing with people who believe that the USA is the hub of the known universe, but that's just part of a bigger disregard I have for philistinism and short-sightedness, and doesn't mean what you imply it means. Make sure you understand that.

 

Oh, and if that particular Ferrari GTO still exists today, I'll bet that it hasn't got an SBC in it any more - for purely economic reasons of another kind. Now that's something that I can relate to.....

 

.....Just don't be surprised or offended when people point out that they could have done the same or better with any number of inexpensive modifications that might "bastardize" the breed.

 

"Bastardize" is your quote, not mine. I don't give a damn what people do with their cars. But when they think that they are cleverer or smarter than the designers and engineers who originally worked on these cars it makes me laugh. Not only do they not know what fiscal restraints, regulatory constrictions and 'design concessions' were forced on the engineers and designers of the time, they are also working with the best part of 40 years of hindsight and improved technology on their side.

 

When people do this and pay no heed to history, then I feel that they are living under a misconception. These cars wouldn't even have got made and sold in the Export market in the first place unless huge concessions to 'ideals' had been made. If anybody thinks they are 'cleverer' than Nissan's engineers because they can 'improve' the bump-steer characteristics of the front suspension of an S30-series Z then they need their head tested.

 

I see, read and hear people both dismissing the S20 engine and talking about it with hushed reverence like it is a holy relic - and both sides seem to know very little about it. Most have never even clapped eyes on one. I'm enthusiastic about the S20 but also realistic about its performance. I don't like having the piss taken out of me for wanting to own and use one. That's where I'm coming from.