Oldestzguy Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 I am not skilled at body work as there seems to be some talent to it that certain people, such as me, can't learn; but I have finished up some cheaper cars by doing the body work the best I can, then sanding them and taping them off perfectly, etc. and then sending them to EconoPaint or other Macco type companies to be sprayed. They are lousy on the time consuming stuff like body work and taping, but nobody holds the sprayer more hours per week than those guys do. Consequently, they know how to flow on paint as good as anybody and they have great booths, etc, so if you are willing to do all the hard work, it is sometimes worth it just to get them to spray the paint on. However, never have a laquer guy spray enamel on your car. Also, watch out for Macco's "bait and switch" program; it is hard to believe. One time I totally preped a car, taped it and just wanted them to spray it at their "special price" they were advertising on TV and they would not do it even if I signed a "wavier" for the guarantee I did not want. Appears that they only wanted to double the price on every car drawn in by the ad regardless of what the ad said or what the car needed. Went to EconoPaint and was very happy with the price and the results.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnutthehutt Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Somehow, I don't find that too hard to believe. (offtopic) I can attest to them being crap at taping etc. My neighbor had her truck repainted and all the window gaskets and a bit of the chrome were suddenly red. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest levelhead86 Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 I dunno how relevant it is, but I have a guitar I painted with the rustoleum and it looked great, but for added shine and protection, I decided to clear coat it with some rattle-can clear *the duplicolor, which smelt like acrylic enamel* and it had bunched up and discolored parts of it, and even after it dried, if you pull your nail across it, it would pull up the paint all the way down to the original finish. Before I cleared it, things were fine so I'm guessing it was some kind of chemical reaction between the two. Hopefully nobody attempts the same/has the same happen to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopstic81 Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 I've been following this thread for a while hoping for a budget solution for paint. I just picked up some of the rustoleam "stops rust" in the smoke gray color that im gonna spray using a cheapie harbor freight hvlp gun. Has anyone determinned whats best to thin it with, mineral spirits or acetone? Has anyone experimented with any different kinds of clear coat? Hopefully i'll find time to spray a couple test panels tomorow, ill post some pics when i do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnutthehutt Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 It sounds like mineral spirits is the way to go. From what I gather between both threads, acetone flashes too quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldestzguy Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Levelhead86 Generally, most guitars are originally covered in laquer. If laquer is totally cured (old helps) you can put enamel over it somewhat; but you can never put laquer over enamel, it will go right to the bottom. I am not really up to date on this, so they might have sealers out now that could solve this problem so I would check with racerx here or someone that really knows what they are talking about. Might be that the clear was laquer on top of your new enamel you had just put on that beforehand did not itself react to the original laquer under it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest levelhead86 Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Levelhead86 Generally, most guitars are originally covered in laquer. If laquer is totally cured (old helps) you can put enamel over it somewhat; but you can never put laquer over enamel, it will go right to the bottom. I am not really up to date on this, so they might have sealers out now that could solve this problem so I would check with racerx here or someone that really knows what they are talking about. Might be that the clear was laquer on top of your new enamel you had just put on that beforehand did not itself react to the original laquer under it. Ah ha... ingenius... thank god that was on my guitar and not the car.... that would have been very bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ricklandia Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 I've been following the thread here on Hybrid-Z for some time now (I secretly want a SBC in my Z - shhhh), and have contributing to the threads on both the Mopar site as well as the ClassicZCar site. You might recognize my "Project Beer Fridge" photos. I don't make any allusions to speak as an expert on this - at all, but having had some amount of success in trying it, I'm all for sharing my experiences. I think everyone here (Hybrid-Z) has a pretty good perspective as to exactly what this is all about. Personally, I think the process works, and works well, as long as you're willing to put in the time and "elbow grease" into it. Bodywork and surface prep are key - if you expect great results, you have to have something great to start with. The same rule would apply if you were to take your car to a professional spray shop - if you have crap bodywork before they sprayed it, it would still come out like crap. That's why the high $$$ spray jobs cost so much, it's not materials that cost so much, it's the labor to get things perfect. I'm not completely sold yet, my next project will be painting the riding mower, which sits outside in the FL sun 24/7 - see how the paint holds up under "real world" conditions, but I haven't lost any enthusiasm. I still feel that this method of painting is an excellent alternative for guys (like myself) that have a low $$$$ budget, but plenty of time (weekends) to paint a car. I don't know if any of you saw the photos posted on the Mopar thread from a guy that was diluting the paint with a product called PENETROL. If the photos are legit, it's something to look into. I'm gonna try to see if I can find some to test out on the mower, maybe do one side with the penetrol, and one side with mineral spirits. Keep up the great posts, every little bit helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZ-E Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 So I see now that is the concensus with the acetone then, it flashes to quickly, but is that for roller or spray method or both. I was looking into the Rustoleum professional DTM paint and it says to cut it with acetone, so now I am a bit confused. Has anyone decided to try it with spraying and acetone or ? I'm about at the time where I want to paint and well I am wanting to know exactly what would be the best way to go. Any suggestions. I will be spraying the paint if that makes a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatejoefitz Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Im in the middle of spraying my car. I thinned with 100% mineral spirits. It's going on very well and coating better than I was expecting. I only spent probably 30 hours perp time on it, so I'm not expecting a 200 hour show quality paint job. The only problems I've run into so far is that when I wet sand, even the tiniest spec of dust will sometimes scratch, so you have to keep the paper and the surface very wet and clean. Ill post pictures when Im done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest waiting_for_a_z Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 . My neighbor had her truck repainted and all the window gaskets and a bit of the chrome were suddenly red. A quick fix for overspray on windows and chrome (I don't know about weather striping etc.) is 000 grit steel wool. This stuff is a god send. Plus if you want too take off a bit of surface rust on your chromy bits, just hit it with the steel wool, then polish it up with glass cleaner, like Windex or what not. The rust won't be gone permanently, but it'll last long enough to go cuisin'8-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoeightythreez Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 eventually the salt air just destroys everything. Perfect testing ground for paint samples Yup that's where my Z was parked when I was on the Nimitz. It held up really well considering the paint was so bad for 3 years. Back in PA now and the Z is in a rented garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zfixxer Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Don't count on it... This tremclad method is as it sounds, too good to be true. As a professional autobody repairer and painter I can deffinitely say that the pics you see of this guy's orange beetle and charger dont acually show you how it looks in real life. If you want to achieve a show car finnish, it takes quality products and the proper application. Unfortunately autobody is a trade that everyone thinks they can do but in reality it isn't as simple as a bit of sanding , putting on some filler, priming then painting. To get your z looking like that blue show car can easily cost $5000 and up. And thats if your car needs next to nothing for work but sand paint and polish. In my opinion if you are fixing or restoring a car and want to be proud of it than paint is the one thing that should not be cheaped out on. After all, thats what everyone sees, Im not saying that you shouldn't go and spend the money on chrome and motor work but in all likelyhood youll probably end up costing yourself more work in the long run when you finally decide to have a professional fix and paint your car after your own attempt's have failed, trust me, I have seen hundreds of customers try and fail to do their own paint and bodywork, and then have to pay thousands more than if they had just left it alone and have someone do it for them in the first place. I'm not telling you what to do but, take it as a suggestion from someone who has dealt with this for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zedevan Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 i dont belive anyone is saying this is a showcar type paint job (although some people on moparts are saying if you spend way to much time on it, a brightside paint job might look good enough for it to pass as a factory paint job under close inspection, but judging by all the factory paint jobs i've been looking at more closely, thats not really saying much), and its SO true that internet pics dont show anywhere near enough detail normally to be of any use, however some give an alright indication, but you have to try out this kinda paint job and see if you're happy with it...on a spare panel preferably i've always been a bit curious as to why it would cost more to fix a bad paint job a person has tried to do themselves over a bad old paintjob? is it a case of having to sand it flat again as the person screwed up badly in that department or ? particually when my thoughts are that if you're going to spend 5g on paint, u'd most likely take it back to bare metal and put the car in a bath just to be safe, which would be very close to the same amount of effort either way? so to me this generalisation of it costing more sounds like "oh so he's tried to do it without us huh, well he'll pay!" lol http://www.electric-lemon.com/?q=node/174 check it out, its sexy personally i would be happy with this sort of finish, and the knownledge that at anytime i can be bothered i can always sand away at it to make it a bit smoother, and if i cut away to much its no big issue, also that my body work doesn't have to b perfect before i start painting (and possilby blowing however much i'd pay for someone to spray it), as each sand between every coat i'm getting it better and better, and if i dent a panel i dont have to get all the surround panels of the car sprayed for the paint to blend in correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zfixxer Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Sorry friend, but the reason for the higher cost of repainting due to someone doing their own painting is that after using an enamel like tremclad it requires a lot more sanding and prep work to make it ready to be painted properly , if not the quality paint that is giong on top of it will sink and you will see the scratches that were under the paint probably because you used a spray can primer which is laquer and doesn't keep its fill quality after being out in the sun for a bit, because its designed to be used under laquer finnishes . Secondly, Everyone thinks that they are a bodyman and unfotunately its not as easy as putting a little bit of "bondo" in the dents. Most people dont understand the proper way to use filler or repair dents, or rust for that matter. So it takes longer to fix. Good for you if you want to fix it yourself, but I see this all the time and nothing ever really changes, most amateur bodymen do exactly the same thing and I generally have to fix the same mistakes which if had been left alone and left to the proffesionals could have been done right and fixed properly and cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zedevan Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 thanks for the tips zfixxer, luckily one of my mates does body work at a porsche repairer and is happily giving me any tips. i do appreshiate that body work is a skill, and people who do it all day are bound to be better at it, as they have had HEAPS more practice, althoguh it is a skill, not a talent, so if i never start i will never learn. if i had not been successful in getting into the field i quite possibly flukeishly have, i would have pursued panel beating, or cabniet making, not sure which... i am still in the position where if i was going to spend 5g on paint i would spend however much it is to take it to bare metal so the rust is actully gone. my car was respayed by "professionals", lol, back 10yrs ago, for just under 5g and the bottom of the doors have since rusted out, along with rust along the bottom of the doglegs (i think thats their name?), up the top of the doors, the top of the passenger c piller, the driver a piller has some surface rust, and thats all i can remember for now. so due to this my thoughts are the previous owner wasted his money, and i'd prefer not to do the same also while having fun with my car, i managed to scratch down one side of it, instead of paying however much to get this resprayed, or bothering trying to set it up, and do it myself, which i'm sure requires a bit of practice, unless ur a freak like 240zhoke, and then have to baby the car for fear of it happening again, i'd prefer to do this technique and keep driving the way i do although in saying this i'm now thinking of getting a go kart instead of hybridzing my car, as panels are alot cheaper lol i'm going to try to use all marine products by interlux, as they are made to sit in the sun in salt water, but even if it does go funny over time, atleast the paint hasn't cost me 5g... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest waiting_for_a_z Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Being a student of the autobody trade, I can vouch for what Zfixxer is sayinig. It isn't just about slapping on filler, over small holes and rust(which I have seen tons of people doing, since I work in a highschool) Even the "simple" things like that take practice, or else you get body work that looks like a lake on a windy day. Welding doesn't seem to be everyone's cup of tea either. Another thing there that takes practice. As much as everyone would like to think they are, not everyone is a body man. Much like everyone thinks they're a drummer. Just cause you hit the steering wheel to the beat of a tune, doesn't mean you belong backing up Touring band "A". Maybe The Sex Pistols Though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jknc90 Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Im a little confused about the rustoleum to mineral spirits ratio. Could somebody help me out? I read the whole thread and noticed people using a couple of different mixtures and I'm wondering which one is best. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zedevan Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 it depends on the temperature start out not mixing any in, so you atleast know the reason why you're adding it in, then keep adding in until it starts to have a negative effect...such as running and yes "waiting for a z", some people are hacks...and dont appreshiate the time and level of involvement needed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peggus Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Hello I'm the owner of the yellow hood pictured in this thread, I noticed some traffic comming from this forum so I thought I'd see what the fuzz is about. If I may provide my two cents to the discussion. If you're looking for showquality paintjob, just pony up the 5G and have a professional do it. However, if your options range from rat rodding it to Maaco then this really isn't a bad solution. Infact, I would say the end result can look better than many oem jobs, any part of my Camry has more orange peel than the Fiat hood I painted. Aditionally, I don't place a whole lot of value on my car, even if I did have 5G to spare I can think many many things I'd rather spend it on, so this technique suits me pretty well. edit/ There's more details on my my website, and since zedevan took the liberty of hotlinking my picture directly I demand that he clicks on some of my google ads! -Peter www.electric-lemon.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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