Zero-Rust...Is my surface clean enough ?

[Dayz]

Hi,

 

I am now ready to paint my floor boards, fender wells, underside of the body and... There are some pictures that are attached. I would like to know how clean does the surface have to be to paint ZR and have the best results.

 

ZR gave me a metal prep (powder) with the paint and gave me some steps.

 

1- Is my surface clean enough, please explain your steps when you are painting ZR? How do you clean your metal before painting.

 

2-If I paint over existing undercoating, will the paint adhere to it?

 

3-How long do I have to wait before painting a topcoat? I have read that after 2 weeks you should be fine.

 

This is the rear underside. You can see that I clean the metal on one side but the rear part is in great condition. I just want to paint over it. How should I handle this job?

 

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-2/1147634/IMG_3339.jpg

 

This is my floor, need to clean it a little more.

 

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-2/1147634/IMG_3349.jpg

 

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-2/1147634/IMG_3343.jpg

 

Any advise would be really appreciated.

 

Thanks Guys

 

Dayz

[Nismo280zEd]

you should probably consult RacerX about that as he told me about the product, however after 2 years I'm having some problems with it. The product was supposed to remain non-porous. Now it is absorbing moisture and oil. But then again I've had it with a topcoating for two years so as long as you topcoat it you should be fine.

 

EDIT your picuters look pretty good, if you leave that factory paint, make sure it is clean and scuffed well.

-Ed

[dj paul]

you are so damn lucky to have a car without much rust at all. dont paint over undercoating wont work well and might promote rust. besides that, looks good. a good product will work even if the surface isnt perfect. but just to be safe, clean it as best you can. i suggest a good degreaser like mineral spirits.

[Oleh]

you should probably consult RacerX about that as he told me about the product' date=' however after 2 years I'm having some problems with it. The product was supposed to remain non-porous. Now it is absorbing moisture and oil. But then again I've had it with a topcoating for two years so as long as you topcoat it you should be fine.

 

EDIT your picuters look pretty good, if you leave that factory paint, make sure it is clean and scuffed well.

-Ed[/quote']

 

wow are you serious ? i've converted to ZR but if it let go after 2 years, i might as well try POR15. How bad is it ? any pics ?

[Dayz]

Thanks to you all, thanks Ernie.

 

1-As for my surface, I will do as you said, clean it the best I can with Acetone the disolver I found that works the best.

 

2-I will shoot 4-6 light coats , in order to get 3-4 mils as they say. Should I spray more coats ?

 

3-Why don't you use the metal prep powder? Just for information.

 

I have been working on redoing all the floor boards, some support here and there.. I guess I didnt too bad !! I wanted it too look like factory so I spent more time to build exactly the form and curves as the original. This car is for my father, at his age no need for too much power.

[Oleh]

Hmmm' date='

 

I was PM'd about this thread and thought I'd share my observation.

 

You can paint over undercoatings - be it rubber or petroleum based - and the paint will stick but only minimumly. Once you drive the car the debris that the undercarriage is exposed to will abrad the paint and even the undercoat. You take a risk when painting over any undercarriage coatings.

 

In regards to Zero Rust or any other DTM primers one must understand that the products have a minimum DFT (dry film thickness) required in order to do what it has been advertised to to. So, for example, if a product requires a D.F.T. of 2 mils and you spray 2 coats (and this is also dependent on how you've reduced the product and your material output spraying technique) you will end up with approximately 1 mil of DFT. In this scenario, the product will undoubtedly not provide the protection you desire because of the lack of minimum DFT. You would need to spray at least 4-6 coats of the product to achieve a 2 mil DFT. Again, if you're the type to "hose" on the material you'll be good to go - if you're the type that merely "mists" on the paint, or applies light coats - you need to spray more coats to achieve the required film thickness.

 

Here's info from the Zero Rust website that I hope will help:

 

Description.....(back to top)

Zero Rust is a direct-to-metal, phenolic modified alkyd coating, that controls rust and corrosion by putting down an impermeable barrier at the steel level. Zero Rust has two superior traits: (1) It provides maximum adhesion to steel. This is called chemical affinity. (2) Its dielectric ability is extraordinary. It isolates steel from the electrolysis process which converts steel to rust. (In laymen's terms, this means that if you can starve the oxygen from the substrate, oxidation cannot occur.)

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Performance:

Zero Rust has exceeded 2000 hours at 3.5 mils d.f.t. (dry film thickness) in the ASTM-Bll7 salt spray tests. This was previously unheard of in an air-dried coating.

 

The effectiveness of Zero Rust on bare steel surfaces is optimized at 3.0 to 3.5 mils d.f.t. over profile. This should provide at least five years of protection with minimal prep work. Longer performance is attainable with additional prep work and cleaning. Eliminating air entrapment on the substrate and removal of contaminants (oil, grease, dirt) will improve overall performance and maximize bonding of Zero Rust with the substrate.

 

Note: On exterior applications there is a possibility of color chalking or fading. If gloss and long-term color retention are important, we recommend top coating with our Crystal Coatâ„¢.

 

 

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Coverage (back to top)

288 square feet per gallon for recommended 3 mils (.003 inch) dry film thickness (866 square feet per gallon per dry mil.)

 

 

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As for surface prep - I don't use the metal prep powder. I wash the area or parts with degreaser and use a red scotch brite scuff pad. I wipe it clean and follow up with clean lacquer thinner. I then like to take a DA with #80 grit sandpaper and go over the area that I want to apply the primer - in this case ZeroRust. Wipe/blow it clean. One word of caution!!! If you're going to go thru the hard work of prepping the part/panel the way I mentioned and then use your air blower of assist in blowing away the dust etc., put a mositure trap on the end of your air blower to trap in moisture/oil that will come from your compressor. If you don't then you're probably going to have adhesion problem with some oil/moisture is blown onto the surface.

 

Hope this helps.

 

RacerX[/quote']

 

I paint with a brush/roller, how many passes should i make ? around 5-6 ?

[Dayz]

I finally painted the underside of the body with zero-rust. I had to thin it with acetone and it went very well. This is the second time I paint and I am surprise with my performance. Now, I need to paint the engine bay in red and topcoat the underside of the body. I was thinking of using the 3M undercoating product !!

 

I will post some pics later. This paint is very hard…good thing !!

Dayz

[Dayz]

Racerx,

 

From their application guide:

"A reduction of 15-20% Xylene is typical. Recommended thinners are xylene, acetone, lacquer thinner and acrylic enamel reducer..."

 

I wanted to use xylene at first, didn't have any close by. I called the support service at ZR and they told me that acetone worked well. I will show you some pictures, you will be able to tell me if it is OK !!!

 

Why xylene is a better than acetone for instance in this case?. I am pretty new to paint, but I like it.

Thanks

[AK-Z]

Where can I get some ZR? No one in the state sells it, from looking at the retailers on ZR's website.

[JMortensen]

JC Whitney has it.

[AK-Z]

JC Whitney has it.

Sweet thanks

[Dayz]

Here you go,

 

You guys in the US don't have to pay some taxes!!! It is cheap for you, lucky guys.

 

http://zero-rust.com/

 

Dayz

[JMortensen]

Well crap. I think that's a bit cheaper than I paid from JC Whitney and it was on sale at JC Whitney. I hate it when you find a better deal after the fact...

[AK-Z]

Good thing I asked, lol. on there homepage it siad that they weren't mailing there products inless it was a retailer or somthing like that, thats why I asked.

 

JC whitney is always having some sale. When I went there they saying FREE SHIPPING then for purchases over $75. But I think its going to cost the same for me either way because the extra shipping charge to alaska.

[Dayz]

Racerx,

 

I think I put enough ZR, I have been told, read, and... that more you have better it is as long as it flashed, or dryed enough between coats. I believe I put 5 good coats; I will try to take picture tomorrow. I have more than a 1/3 of a gallon under that car (interior floorboards as well).

 

Next time I do it, I will use Xylene, not that I have had a bad experience with acetone but...just to follow the expert!!

 

I can say that the paint is really hard, hard to sand as well. I believe it is a great product. I will topcoat it with a 3m Undercoating urethane.

 

I have to say that my surface was really clean, the best I could have done, before getting bored with this project. My metal had no rust at all.

 

Do you think using 3m Undercoating is a good idea? Or what should I do to protect the underside of the body?

 

Thanks

Dayz

[U.P. Z]

Alot of good suggestions here. One thing that I would mention is to treat the bare metal with a rust converter. I like Pickle-X, it will kill any rust and prevent it from returning. Maybe the ZR powder does that, they didn't have that last time I used ZR. Here's a link where I get ZR and other body work stuff from http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=6RCC

[Dayz]

U.P.Z,

Beautiful Project...very nice paint, practice, practice and practice I guess. What is your advice on undercoating ?

[U.P. Z]

Zero Rust is a good product, I've used it many times. It takes awhile for it to fully cure as it is not a catalized product, but it is lightyears better than the ashpalt based spray products. One other option is the bedliner products but I have little experience with them. I still like to prepare to bare metal, treat with Pickle-X, epoxy prime and then Zero Rust. My current project is all painted underneath with no undercoating but it takes alot of prep to go that route and make it last. I think you're doing just fine. Thanks for the compliments, btw.

[Oleh]

^ i though ZR works best on bare metal ?

[Nismo280zEd]

lol so many different opinions. Just wanted to update on my most recent find, ZR holds up pretty decent to hydraulic fluid, it didnt' dissolve the paint, just lifted it from the metal where my leak was, came up in big chunks like the por-15 did.

-Ed