HICKL Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Let's say I want to handle 400hp (not there yet, but ain't done yet) Since my T5 can't handle my motor already, I have to do something and am considering going auto. I need overdrive as I do use it as a daily driver quite a bit. What are my options? I have a 700r4 laying around that is totally stock but I don't know enough about auto's to know what it would take to make it handle the hp/torque. Thanks Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 I've seen the update manual for the 700R4 and it's quite extensive. It is my understanding that it will handle that level of power, however the newer 4L80E is stronger and retains the overdrive feature. I only do powerglides so I would suggest seeing a competent builder of transmissions. There is probably somebody else on this site that has valuable info to share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 http://www.joby.se/corvette/mods/2004-12-26_4l80/ http://www.tciauto.com/gm/gm_4L80E.htm http://www.compushift.com/compushift.htm http://www.transmissioncenter.net/All%20Transmissions.htm#4l80e http://www.txchange.com/tgp.htm http://www.txchange.com/sk.htm http://www.high-impact.net/transmission_and_gear/badboy4l80e.htm 4L80e Transmission Specifications: This transmission has a main case length of 26”. Gear Ratios: 1st:= 2.48 2nd =1.48 3rd =1.0 4th = 0.75 Power Capacity: 700 ft-lbs of torque, 800 HP yeah, you want a 4L80E, its easily twice as strong as a 700r4 in stock form, one thing to keep in mind is its HEAT and torque that destroy a transmision ...NOT HP....rateing a trans by hp is totally bogas B.S., hp is dependant on both rpms and tq, if a trans will only hold lets say 350 ft lbs before failing , like the factory rated 700r4 you can simply spin the engine rpms up to whatever level you choose at 350ft lbs and rate the trans at totally unrealistic hp levels so don,t get fooled! 350 ft lbs at 5000rpm= 333 hp, but spin it to 350 ft lbs at 7000rpm and the same trans is rated at 467hp, a good shop can build a 4L80E to handle well over 900 hp. yes its about 100 lbs heavier but the reason is much more massive parts, they use 4L80E transmisions in 8 ton motor homes with big block engines and tow trucks .Ive destroyed several 700r4s behind my 383, and I fully intend to swap to a 4L80e into my corvette,once my garage project is completed, I posted some 4l80e links above. btw TRANSGO sells a kit to alow full manual control of shifts so you don,t need to spend $900 on a controller if you want to see a trans shop shut up about how strong thier trans is ask for an UNCONDITIONAL ,EVERY THINGS COVERED WITHOUT QUESTION ,ONE YEAR GARAUNTEE Ive had two shops brag about thier (UNBREAKABLE 700r4 transmissions, ) both were broken thru raw tq not abuse, once SLICKS were used Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeshoe Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 The 700 can be built to handle 400HP/TQ, but at that level in a Z car why not use a 200-4R? It fits in the place of a TH350, uses the same driveline, the crossmember has to be 6" to the rear of a TH350 location (approx same as Th400 location) it is lighter, smaller, and actually has more capability as a hi-performance unit than a 700 if you want to spend the cash. The 700 has a few unfixable issues no matter the builder. 3-4 apply design for one. What you save on install costs for the 200 you can invest in better internals (mainly needs a upgraded forward drum). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POSTM Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 I have to agree with Grumpy go with the 4L80. I have built many 700r’s most of them for trucks. I would give a 30-day guaranty and cross my fingers for all 30 days and hope and pray I didn’t see them back. You can beef up a 700r but the first time the owner cranked the wheels to lock in 4-low and jab the throttle that trans is gone. The only thing I liked about the 700r was that I always had one to build they kept busy and well paid. The 4L80 in stock form can handle any abuse thrown its way and still come home under its own power and a lot of times it will be towing the truck with the 700r in it. I can’t say much about the 200r4 except that I have never built one (but it didn’t come in a truck). A friend of mine used to drag race with a th200 (3-speed) he liked them a lot; pretty beefy trans when you mix in some power glide parts. I can’t remember what he did to those 200’s it has been about 20 years since I worked with that guy. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spdsk8r Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 The only problem I could see with the 4L80E is the fit in the Datsun trans tunnel. I believe the tunnel would require much 10lb. sledge customization. I presently have a broken 700R4 in my car. I am seriously looking at the 200-4R. A local trans shop said they would build a 200 set up specifically for my application. Since there are many Buick GN's running awsome numbers with the 200-4R, it should easily handle what I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 your correct that the 200r is a better choice than the 700r4 if properly built and that the 4L80E will require some cutting and welding on the trans tunnel to clear, but the 4L80e is still the stronger choice. now the 200r will fill your needs , be cheaper and far lighter,and easier to install, but its not stronger, and its not in the same class, will it work (the 200r) sure!, but the 4L80e is still the stronger trans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spdsk8r Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 I agree with you 100%. I guess my feeble attempt to explain myself was not clear. In a light car with <400hp, wouldn't the added weight be a disadvantage as well as the 4L80E be overkill, compared to the 200-4R? btw, Grumpy, did you ever use that driveshaft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titanium Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Well I bought one of those Mad Dog Godfather transmissions off ebay. He holds a 1 year warranty for up to 700trq. I intend on holding it to him if it doenst work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewby Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 700r4 is junk to me I have been running a built th350 for 7 years and had no problems but i decied to put in a 700r4 well i did and i went about 8 miles then it started slipping so i decied to finish it off so i put it in 3rd and held the engine at 6 grand till it felt like netrual then as you know i had a powerglide (only 2 gears out of four). so i procceded to tear it upwhat uoy do is to get going about 50 and slam it into reverse well i broke the input shaft but i was able to coast into the garge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 "btw, Grumpy, did you ever use that driveshaft?" first. thanks again for selling me the drive shaft. ITS sitting next to the 4L80E trans and 496 BBC, waiting for my garage to be finished, ILL install in my CORVETTE as soon as I complete the GARAGE PROJECT "In a light car with <400hp, wouldn't the added weight be a disadvantage as well as the 4L80E be overkill, compared to the 200-4R?" your correct it will be overkill...IF you stay at the 400hp level, but its been my experiance that seldom happends....and its wasted money to swap transmissions again when you boost the power levels significantly, (like when you add a 250hp nitrous kit in the future!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HICKL Posted March 11, 2006 Author Share Posted March 11, 2006 thanks for all the help guys. Now for the stupid ignorant question. What do 200-4r's come in? And does anyone have one to sell me Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Jeff, have a look here: http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com I have been to their shop and spoken to them a few times. They seem to be a class act and have a good rep in the industry. The tranny came in several cars in the mid to late 80s, and early 90s IIRC, Buicks, OLds and Pontiac full size cars and wagons. Most have a 'universal' belhousing that will fit the SBC. Do a google search to find the exact cars. I pulled one out of a Regal Wagon IIRC. Obviously the ideal donor would be the GNX as it was built the strongest from the factory, but since you would likely need to have it built anyways, you may as well order one from above. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HICKL Posted March 11, 2006 Author Share Posted March 11, 2006 thanks Tim, I'll check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spdsk8r Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 You also may want to check with your local performance transmission shops. We have a couple of them here who carry, on hand, several cores that they will rebuild to your application. One local shop quoted me $1200 including higher stall converter, set up for maximum performance for my ZX/sbc application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Just for arguements sake. I have a built 700r4 out of a 89 Corvette with a 9.5" 3500 converter. I have been beating on it for close to 3 years. I run it at the track ( low 11's ) in the 1/4. Also a little street racing too...I know, bad ,bad! I just don't see what the fuss is all about. 3 friends run them too and only one went south on him and that was with it backing up a sbc 408 with a 175 shot of nitrous. Better get that detent set just right as that is a major cause of failures right there. Could be these little light cars don't hurt them as much as the average domestic pig car at 35-3700 lbs. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 a lighter weight car puts a good deal less stress on the trans than the heavier cars will. my vette weights about 3500lbs with me installed in the drivers seat, the current 700r4 (my fourth) handles the power just fine UNTILL i put on slicks, its been my experiance that the tires spinning vs grabing lowers the stress significantly, but once you do that, SLICKS) the trans life is SEVERLY SHORTEND, I rarely get more than a few dozen runs with slicks before the trans grenades...nitrous use only agravates the situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeshoe Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 I build racing automatics as a hobby/side business. I almost exclusively deal with GM stuff, although I have done some Mopar and Ford stuff for friends. I am not a fan of the 700 or 4L60E. I personally do not believe you could ever RELIABLY put 600+ HP/TQ through ANY trans based on this design. Could you build one and baby it behind that kind of power, yes, but as grumpyvette stated if you are taking to a track with slicks, it's gonna go bad quick. They have issues that there is no real fix for. However at the 350-400 flywheel HP area, they are fine with proper upgrades. Vette servo, good clutches (the stock 4L60E Borg Warner Hi-Energy are great in most applications) valve body mods, proper pump setup, etc... My suggestion is not to use BTO for a 200-4R. There are a few good 200-4R builders out there that I would use but BTo isn't one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 My suggestion is not to use BTO for a 200-4R. There are a few good 200-4R builders out there that I would use but BTo isn't one of them. Can you substantiate that statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeshoe Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 The good 200-4R builders are usually well known within the GN community. PTS is a big name and Bruce makes alot of upgraded parts and I've used some his stuff in my builds however I don't do business with him anymore. Chris at CK Performance is my favored supplier for upgraded parts and who I usually recommend for soemone to buy from. There are others I would trust to build one though, Vince Janis, Mike Kurtz of Century Trans (TX), Eric Shertz at Dynotec (NJ), etc.. There are a couple of things with BTO. One just do some research online, you will find out the luck some have had with BTO trans especially the 200's. Next, The weak points of the 200-4R are in most stock forms: Weak 2nd band Direct clutches will fail under power, too small servo not helping the 2nd band at all, pump rings, sun shell, pump stator, input shaft under considerable power, fluid feed, and forward drum, The 2nd band, pump rings, sun shell, and stator are easy normally upgraded items during rebuild. They are fairly cheap and the problems mirror the 700's for the most part. The Servo was a better design (larger) for the GN's and is acceptable for a mild street V8, say 350 lb ft. Maybe more depending on line pressure, and calibration. The main problem is you start putting power to the units the forward drum and directs fail. The directs is an easy fix but almost assures the forward drum will fail. So you need an improved fwd drum that is ~$400 from CK or $600 from PTS... They are the only two companies making a drum I would use. Others are cryo'ing or heat treating the stock drums. (BTO probably does this). The other builders I mentioned use parts from these two suppliers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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