R-200 from turbo ZX into 77 280Z

[Guest Locutus]

How hard is it to put a R-200 from a 80 turbo ZX into a 77 280Z. I like this idea right now because the turbo ZX has CV joints, which seem to be pretty popular and somewhat stronger. Is this pretty much a direct swap or is there more to it than that?

[Guest Anonymous]

locust,

I have the same question. There was an artical on the tech board about this and I emailed but have not heard back yet. I would like to try the same thing. I dont believe that the ujoints are up to the task.

 

Bubba Fett

 

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He sent me to get the Jedi

[pparaska]

Guys, I haven't gotten any email on this yet (Bubba Fett). THe R200 out of the 280ZX Turbo is the same as the 280ZX and 280Z ones. The stub axles in the 280Z/280ZX diff pop out and the Turbo CV halfshafts pop in.

 

Any other questions I'd be glad to try to answer on this swap.

 

 

 

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Pete Paraska - 73 540Z - Marathon Z Project - pparaska@tidalwave.net">pparaska@tidalwave.net -

[Guest Locutus]

nothing special to it, just get the cv shafts and put them in?

[pparaska]

No, more to it than that.

 

Read the tech page (hard to get to except for when you first log in to the site, since once you're in the Forums, I can't figure a way back but to reload the main page.)

In there you'll see that you need to decide which stub axles you will use in the strut/hub carriers (240Z or 280Z) and that will set you on the path of using the 280ZX Turbo companion flanges or the 280Z companion flanges and custom adapters to the CV shafts.

 

More questions, fire away. The swap and conversion pages are on my site also (see below.)

 

 

 

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Pete Paraska - 73 540Z - Marathon Z Project - pparaska@tidalwave.net">pparaska@tidalwave.net -

[Guest Locutus]

I have been reading that the ZX axels are to long and bottom out? I am not sure what I am looking at to be honest, stub axels, companion flanges, what is all that?

[pparaska]

I know Greg Kring said that he tried the swap with the 240Z stub axles and 280ZXT companion flanges and said the axles were too long and bottomed out. I had that setup on my car, but when I bought Jim Biondo's wheels from him, I went ahead and bought his 280Z stub axles, companion flanges, and custom adapters, along with the Arizona Z brakes front and rear. So I've had both versions on the car. I had no trouble with the axles being too short, although with the 240 stubs and 280ZXT companion flanges, I did experience the left CV halfshaft run out of angular play in the last 1/4" of suspension travel. That didn't happen with the 280Z companion flanges and stub axles, and custom adapters. So yeah, they are long, but on my car, Jim's and others that Jim knows of, they work fine without binding or bottoming out. Greg's case seems to be an extreme case.

 

Since you're about the fifth person to ask what a companion flange is, I guess I need to upgrade the site with some pics.

 

The stub axle is the part that the wheel bolts to with the studs. It goes throught the strut/hub housing and runs in two ball bearings. The companion flange is internally splined and meshes with the external splines of the most inboard part of the stub axle. The companion flange is the part that the halfshaft bolts to. There are three typs for the L6 cars:

1) 240/early 260Z for u-joint halfshafts

2) late 260/280Z and 280ZX for u-joint halfshafts

3) 280ZX Turbo for CV halfshafts

 

The 3rd is interchangeable with the 1st type, by using a modified r200 pinion seal.

The 2nd type can be used with the CV shafts, but must have an adapter to goe between the CV shaft and the companion flange. That's what I have on my car now.

 

I'll get to work on fixing those swap pages.

 

 

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Pete Paraska - 73 540Z - Marathon Z Project - pparaska@tidalwave.net">pparaska@tidalwave.net -

[MYRON]

About the u-joints... I have been hammering

may car for a while and have had no problem.

Am I correct in saying the the r200 and

stock axles are strong enough for use

with big horsepower as long as you are not

running slicks? I have 205/50/16z yokohama's and the car pulls hard.. Locutus has ridden in it when i have dogged it out a few times and i havent noticed any problems....

[pparaska]

Guys, mind if I move this thread to the "Suspension, Chassis, and Brakes" forum? It kind of fits there better, since this topic is germane to all Hybrid Z's.

 

Pete

[Guest Anonymous]

quote:

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Originally posted by pparaska:

Guys, I haven't gotten any email on this yet (Bubba Fett). THe R200 out of the 280ZX Turbo is the same as the 280ZX and 280Z ones. The stub axles in the 280Z/280ZX diff pop out and the Turbo CV halfshafts pop in.

 

Any other questions I'd be glad to try to answer on this swap.

 

Pete, Bubba Fett here. As you noticed I am Bubba Fett not his sophisticated brother Boba Fett. I am new to the Email thing, but I did try to contact you.

 

My question was "Will the 280ZX conpanion flange fit into the 280 strut and attatch to the 280Z hub(the part with the wheel studs) If this were the case, can the adapter be omited from the swap. If this would work it would make life easier for me since the only machinest I know is Jar Jar Binks. I have 240, 260, 280 and 280zx from which I may pull parts.

 

I appreciate your help and respect your knowledge. Thanks for also letting me know that you did not get the email. I will improve my computer skills. I guess I need a snap on computer.

 

Thanks,

 

Bubba Fett

 

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[Guest Locutus]

We can move it. I am still not clear on what I have to do to put CV joints in my 77 280Z I am getting tomorrow. You said just put them in but I am not sure if I need adapters or what?

[pparaska]

Bubba Fett,

Don't worry about the computer skills, man, they come with time. I respect anybody willing to tackle these projects! I did it first once too, and learned what you're going through now. Same thing, I just did it before you. I hope I can shed some light on the project. Pictures would help. I have a digital camera and some spare parts around so I'll snap some pics and label them on the computer and update the site. It'd be easier for every body to understand if I had pics there.

 

Bubba, Locutus,

You can't use the 280Z (same as the late 260Z) stub axles that are in your cars, without a custom adapter like I have on my car. But all is not lost. Bubba, you said you had 240Z parts. That will save you the machining of the adapters.

 

You can change the stub axles out to the 240Z ones by slide hammering the 280Z axles out by the wheel studs, once you remove the U-joint halfshafts and the large nut down inside the companion flange that that halfshaft bolts to. You have to unstake the nut, since the factory peens it over agains a flat on the threaded inboard end of the stub axle. Once the stub axle is out, the inboard stub axle bearing is probably still in the strut housing, so tap it inboard. The seal will pop out that way too. The outboard bearing is pressed onto the stub axle and will come with it. It is a sealed bearing on the outboard side. Slide the "distance piece" (looks like a short piece of thickwalled pipe) off of the stub axle and save it and any copper washers. Clean out the hub reservoir of the old grease.

 

Get some 240Z stub axles, and it would probably be a good idea to have the outboard bearing pressed off at a machine shop. Have them magnaflux and shot peen the stub axles to make sure there aren't any cracks, and to stress releive them. Then have them press a new outboard bearing on (making sure the sealed side goes to the lug stud flange side of the axle). Take it home and tap in a new, greased, inboard bearing into the cleaned hub cavity. Slide the "distance piece" and any copper washer there might have been when you disassembled the 280Z stub axle from the car. Add new wheel bearing grease to the hub cavity and grease the outboard bearing as much as you can. Then tap in the 240Z stub axle. You probably have to tap the inboard bearing back in a bit, against the distance piece.

 

Now, take the extra R200 pinion seal you already bought and grind off the rubber on the outer diameter. Test every once and a while to see if it will snug fit into where the old stub axle seal went. Don't go too far on the grinding or it won't have a snug fit but will be too loose. Lube the v-groove of the seal with grease.

 

Install the 280ZX Turbo companion flange, install the thick washer and a new 280ZX locknut (so you won't have to stake the 240/260/280Z nut). Torque it to 200 lb ft, no kidding.

 

Pop the output axles out of the R200 that you have installed in the car. Remove the old seals in the output axle openings in the diff and replace with new, greased ones. Take the shorter left side 280ZX halfshaft and slide the splined end into the left side of the diff.

 

If the suspension is assembled to the car, undo the e-brake cable and brake line, and unbolt the top 3 bolts that hold the top of the strut isolator to the car. Swing it out (watch that fender lip!) and you should be able to engage the outboard end of the CV halfshaft (while compressing the shaft joints to make the shaft shorter) into the companion flange. Align the holes and add the 6 new 280ZX T halfshaft bolts, lockwashers, and nuts that you already bought. Torque to spec (can't recall the number but it's higher than you'd think for these little bolts).

 

Swing the strut back up into the fender well and bolt it up, along with the e-brake cable and steel line to the brakes. Bleed the brakes.

 

Repeat for the right side of the car.

 

I think that's it.

 

Anyway, you now have the marginally weaker 240Z stub axles in the car, but it's easier than machining an adapter for most folks.

 

I have seen somebody's site that welded a plate to a 280Z companion flange so that they could bolt the 280ZX T CV shaft to it. The weld stuff scares me for this application. High stress and fatigue and all that.

 

Of course, my the tech article I wrote has the drawing for the adapter pieces, so that is probably less trouble, but more money, if you don't want to yank your stub axles.

 

Please don't hesitate to ping me if this isn't clear. Sometimes my writing just can't get across what I could easily show someone.

 

Best Regards,

 

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Pete Paraska - 73 540Z - Marathon Z Project - pparaska@tidalwave.net">pparaska@tidalwave.net -

[Guest Locutus]

what about taking the whole r200 rear end out of the Turbo ZX and putting the whole thing axels and all into a 77 280Z. wont that solve the problems of different splines all?

[pparaska]

Locutus wrote:

"what about taking the whole r200 rear end out of the Turbo ZX and putting the whole thing axels and all into a 77 280Z. wont that solve the problems of different splines all?"

 

Sorry, no.

The diff, halfshafts and companion flanges could be swapped, but the strut/hub carriers are too different. The 280ZX uses a semi-trailing arm suspension that can't be bolted into the Chapman strut 240/260/280Z.

 

Oh yeah, you have to swap the pinion flange the driveshaft bolts to from a 280Z R200 I think, also.

 

[This message has been edited by pparaska (edited April 14, 2000).]

[Danno74Z]

Pete,

 

Update on the early 260Z stub axles.

Yesterday, I removed the companion flanges from my car and they are the same dia.

as the larger 280Z's. 4/74 is the date the car was made. The 280ZX T companion flanges will not fit. I just wanted to pass on the information.

 

Danno

[pparaska]

Danno,

 

I'm not sure when the early/late US 260Z cutoff was, but I'm pretty sure 4/74 was after the change over to the 280Z type designs. So it would figure that you have the larger 280Z type stubs. Anybody now when that cutoff was from 1974 to 1974-1/2 in the US 260Z?

[Danno74Z]

Pete,

 

Great trivia question on the stub axles! What was the date Datsun stopped building the 240Z and switched over to the 260Z model?

 

Also, if I use the 240Z stubs instead of the 260Z, what "ballpark HP" can these take over the "marginally weaker 240Z stub axles".

 

Any problem in the 300-400HP range? Some members must have snapped stub axles. Perhaps

we can get a range of "acceptable" HP to use. Say, under this HP use the 240Z axles or over..400HP?? use the larger ones.

 

Danno74

[pparaska]

Not a member, but with 568 flywheel HP, Jim Biondo snapped one at the line after some violent wheel hop. Right where the splines end and the bearing race surface starts.

 

I'd say that for 300-400 hp, you'd be in decent shape since I've heard from numerous people with that kind of power and never heard of a stub axle break. It's the u-joints that go. Then again, I like Mike's plan of building halfshaft loops that would contain the half shaft if a stub axle or u-joint gave way. Nice thing is that if the stub breaks inboard of the inner bearing race like it did on Jim's car, the axle will probaly stay put unless there are extended large side loads on the tire.

 

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Pete Paraska - 73 540Z - Marathon Z Project - pparaska@tidalwave.net">pparaska@tidalwave.net -

[Mikelly]

74 1/2 prod. swap over was in April, so all 4/74 and newer cars would have the 5MPH bumpers, and the larger companion flanges...FYI, the 74 1/2 and newer stub axles were rated for more torque, so I'd say it would be in your best interest to modify the companion flange or use Pete's adapters!

 

Mike

 

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"I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!"

mjk

[Danno74Z]

Mike,

 

My 260Z have the thin bumpers like the 240Z with the turn signal lights underneath the bumper. It does not have the thick/er bumpers like the 280Z model. I do have a shock type bumper mount for a crash. 8/74 I believe is the date Datsun changed over to the new bumper style.

 

My car also has rubber bumperetts on each side of the front and rear bumpers (4"x4" blocks) in the same location as the 240 chrome ones. I don't think the axles changed when the bumper changed. This seems to have occurred much earlier in the year.

 

Danno74