wheelman Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 I pulled an re-installed my windsheild yesterday and have a question for those of you who've used the MSA kit. The kit includes 2 tubes of black weather stripping glue sold by LokTite. The original stripping around the windshield had gaps at the upper corners that were filled with silicon sealer when I pulled windshield (looked like the original factory install). There were no leaks but the stripping was coming apart and needed to be replaced. The new stripping has gaps at the same locations, is the glue included in the kit supposed to be used to fill these gaps? I put a little of the glue on a small piece of cardboard to see what it was like when it set up and found it is flexible and sort of a tar/rubber consistancy. I'd really rather use silicon sealer to fill these gaps, what did those of you who've already done this use and how did it turn out? Wheelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metallicar Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 I am no expert in this matter. I think Silicone will not cure properly and when it does, it will not adhere properly to both the rubber and painted metal surfaces, so it will fail as an adhesive / sealant. The rubber or butyl based stuff will always remain pliable so it will flex between the rubber and metal. Pliabilty is important due to the expansion / contraction of the rubber weather strip. The soft sealant seems to be self healing, so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrel Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Are you still using the chrome trim pieces? If not you should. They help the gasket keep its shape in the corners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 How about butyl tape? That's what they seal windshields with on cars that don't have a weatherstrip showing. Basically they run a bead of butyl tape around the steel frame that holds the windshield, then stick the winshield onto the tape, then there's usually some trim pieces that cover the gap between the edge of the glass and the car and hold the windshield in place. BTW I don't know why they call it "tape". Tape isn't really a good word for the stuff. It comes in a roll and it's like a 1/2" diameter round heavy tar like substance, very sticky. Any auto glass shop will have it, if you just need a bit for the corners they'll probably give it to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom'sZ Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Former paint and body guy here, 25 years. If you are going to use the stock rubber to reinstall the windshied (really the only way) you must, as Darrel says, use the chrome pieces. The rubber is fitted, the windshield is installed and then the chrome trim pieces inserted to tighten up the fit. The rubber will be to loose and always leak without them. A sealer type caulking should also be used to insure a water tight seal. Go to the auto paint supply house in your area and they will have a sealant specifically made for this application. It comes in tubes to be applied with a chalk gun and is urethane, black in color. Ask the counter person, tell them what you are doing. You'll need some solvent to get the excess goop off the car when you are done. (prep-sol or whatever won't hurt the paint) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted March 21, 2006 Author Share Posted March 21, 2006 Thanks for the feedback guys. Yes I'm planning on putting the metal trim back in but have not done it yet, wanted to put the sealer in first so I wasn't fighting the trim while trying to squirt the sealer into the gaps. I guess I'll put the trim in and then the sealer. I'm pretty sure I'll still have a gap at the top right passenger corner but the gap at the other corner has closed up after letting things sit for a day or so. Jon, I've already got the windshield back in and really don't want to pull it out to insert the butyl tape. If I'd known about that stuff before I put it in I'd have picked some up to try out. I'll go to the local paint shop and get some of that urethane stuff. That must be what was in there when I removed the orignal weather stripping. Wheelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I thought that you were supposed to put the trim in before reinstalling the window. In fact, I thought it was damn near impossible to put the trim in afterwards because it's so thin. I think I got that impression years ago from the IZCC list. Hope I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted March 21, 2006 Author Share Posted March 21, 2006 I hope you're wrong also, I really don't want to pull this thing back out. I have Wick Humble's book on restoring a Z car and he says to put the trim in after the windsheild is installed. Wheelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom'sZ Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 no, I'm certain the trim goes in after the windshield is installed. Some silicone spray will help wiggle it in. It's not easy, they were an unpopular style for this reason. Put the urathane goop in before the chrome trim. In this order: put windshield and rubber in, goop up with urathane, run it all the way around filling any gaps, then install trim pieces and clean up the excess urathane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom'sZ Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I thought that you were supposed to put the trim in before reinstalling the window. In fact, I thought it was damn near impossible to put the trim in afterwards because it's so thin. Jon: there is another meathod which may allow you to do it that way. It uses a piece of string. You would put the rubber on the windshield, install the trim into the rubber and then using a heavy cord (like clothes line) run the string around the windshield in the channel in the rubber where the windshield frame of the car body would go overlapping the ends a few inches. Lay the whole thing in the hole, then from inside the car you slowly pull the string out. As you do, the rubber flaps over the frame into postion on the inside. You pull the string out all the way around while a helper pushes gently from the outside. Hard to describe, do you get my drift? Anyhow, since wheelman's is already in, just use the meathod in the previous post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Jon: there is another meathod which may allow you to do it that way. It uses a piece of string. You would put the rubber on the windshield' date=' install the trim into the rubber and then using a heavy cord (like clothes line) run the string around the windshield in the channel in the rubber where the windshield frame of the car body would go overlapping the ends a few inches. Lay the whole thing in the hole, then from inside the car you slowly pull the string out. As you do, the rubber flaps over the frame into postion on the inside. You pull the string out all the way around while a helper pushes gently from the outside. Hard to describe, do you get my drift?Anyhow, since wheelman's is already in, just use the meathod in the previous post[/quote'] I've always installed windows using the string method. In fact this method was shown to me when I was out in the desert camping. About the 4th day in my buddy locks his keys in his Toyota PU. We're all trying to figure out what to do when another friend jumps in the bed, sticks his fingers under the weatherstrips, and pulls the whole rear window out. We used a bootlace off of one of our motorcycle boots to put it back in. I've since done it 3 or 4 times on my own Toyota. So that's my funny story, but now I'm curious, how else do you install a window? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom'sZ Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Jon: Let me guess, was the back window of the Toyota PU on the camping trip a slider? They were notoriously loose fitting. Those PUs were also notorious for flipping over in 4WD version w/ bigger tires so I did a few roofs on them as well and had a few that were so loose they damn near wanted to fall out. I'm still giggling here. Anyhow... you would not believe the way I've seen a few windshields installed. I had a friend, a glass guy with a LOT of experience. I watched him do a older dodge van once. It had a zipper style rubber similair to the Zcar but a round rubber zipper instead of the chrome trim. He installed the rubber onto the windshield without the zipper, lubed it up with WD40, carried it over and JAMMED the rubber down over the metal channel, then laid the windshield over in the hole and started slapping the corners down with his big o' palm (he was a big guy) I stood there cringing but it popped right in! We had a tool which was like a screwdriver but with a little loop on the end that was for installing the zipper. The butyl tape (dum dum we called it) was for the kind of windshield that doesn't have a rubber and the kind of chrome trim that clips onto the clips in the channel. They make a structural version of the urathane chaulk that a lot of more modern cars use to glue all the fixed windows in with. Similiar to the butyl tape but you just squeeze a big o' bead of it in the channel like the tape would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Actually his was a solid window, but the truck was brand spankin new and the weatherstrips were still really pliable. On mine I have a slider, but my weatherstripping has always been a little stiffer, but it is still surprisingly easy to pop out. So the other way to install a window is to lube up the edge then push and pound on it until the rubber flexes over the sheetmetal lip? That sounds like the hard way for sure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TegRacer324 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Does it matter when you install the chrome strips? I installed my windshield last summer using the rope method and since then I haven't done much to the car unfortunately. Will I still be able to get the chrome stripping in there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted March 22, 2006 Author Share Posted March 22, 2006 I used the string method and it was still a bear to get the weather strip in. I don't know if it would have been worse with the trim installed or not but it's in now and not coming back out. Mom'sZ, You described the method of install exactly as Wick Humble did in the book I have, right down to removing the excess urethane sealer with solvent when you're done. Now I just need to get some sealer and find the time to get the process completed. Wheelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Juday Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 When I installed my windshield a couple of years ago I was warned to install the rubber on the glass, then the SS trim on the rubber, and then the whole thing into the car. The neighbor next door used to install auto glass in his youth. He said to use WD40 generously on the rubber and the pinch weld when I roped it in and then thump the rubber gasket with a rubber mallet all the way around after it's in. The thumping and the WD40 allows the rubber gasket to move around and seat properly in the pinch weld. He said if I did that it would fit perfect with no leaks and no need for any other sealant. He was right. One other tip he gave me was to pay close attention the body seams in the pinch weld before the glass goes in. There are four, one in or near each corner. Smooth them out as much as possible and the rubber will fit better. I've done a few pick-up back windows as well. The S30 windshield is much more difficult. Getting the trim on with the glass out was hard enough. I cant imagine trying to do it with the windshield installed. It's very easy to tear the thin edge of rubber that holds that trim in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoeightnine Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Dan.. Even the Datsun shop manual mentions the rope technique. The translation is poor, as most Japanese is, and mentions use of multiple persons and rope on the inside rubber. They even have a part number for the rope! Their illustrations are very cartoon like and difficult to grasp. What I am getting from all this is basicly the rope is used to pull the inner rubber flange into the interior of the car, right? What type of rope? how do you get it (the rope) to stay put? Could you expand on this a bit, or is there a sticky? Many thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TegRacer324 Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 You just buy some cord somewhere that's not gonna break. You put the seal over the windshield and put the sealant in there and then fill up the groove in the rubber on the outside with the adhesive or whatever it is you use. Once you do that you wrap the rope all the way around it with extra rope coming out you place the windshield in the opening. Just start pulling on the rope while someone outside the car pushed on the area you're pulling. Keep a screwdriver around to pry the corners or any tough spots into place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom'sZ Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 clothes line cord works good. Everything must be CLEAN. Like Dan Juday says, check the condition of the channel where the windshield sits. Fix any rust, hammer and dolly flat the seams, put a fresh coat of paint in there to hold down rust if you need to. spray everything down with a silicon spray first like WD40. Install the rubber onto the windshield (out of the car) The rubber has two channels (grooves) around it's length, one the windshield sits in, the other the metal windshield frame of the car body. Starting in the middle on the bottom put the cord up inside the second channel in the rubber. Use a paint stick or screwdriver or your finger to get it all the way up in there. Run the cord all the way around the windshield inside the rubber until it overlaps a few inches where you started. Place the windshield in the hole with the rubber on it. With a helper pressing gently from outside, holding the windshield in place with the rubber laying on the outside face of the metal windshield frame, climb inside the car. Grabbing one end of the cord gently pull. As you do the rubber flap pulls over the metal frame and comes to be inside the metal frame. Like Tagracer says, if you pull the rope and the rubber doesn't flap over the frame, like in the corners, stop and work it over with a screwdriver or hook. Be careful not to rip the rubber. Pull the cord out all the way around the windshield and it should all slip into position. If it doesn't, don't sit there fighting it, pull the whole thing back out, replace the cord in the rubber and start over. I'm better at working on cars then I am at explaining things to people using the written word but I hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 I was originally going to pay someone to install my front and back glass but like all things car related I ended up doing it by myself. I made myself a bucket of highly slippery and soapy water, seated the gasket on the windshield, soaped the heck out of the gasket, windshield, and window frame and used the clothes line cord method along with a cotter pin puller to get the windshield installed. It was my first time ever installing a windshield and I was dreading it because of all the horror stories I had heard. well it turns out it was one of the easiest things to do on the car, the front went a little slow seeing as how it was my first time, but still it took my myself and I a little less than 30 minutes. I had the back glass installed in 15 minutes. I didnt install the trim in the rubber until after the windshield was in the car. I too heard stories about how it was impossible to install the trim after the windshield was in and as a matter of fact I did install the trim on my first attempt. after the first pull of the cord and getting the bottom edge seated all but one piece of the trim had popped out. I said screw it, yanked all the trim out and installed it later. I again used soapy water mix to help install the trim along the a little plastic windshield and trim installer tool that I got from Victoria British. I would have to say that that little tool is invaluable when installing the trim as it doesnt tear up the rubber like a metal screwdriver would. It also wont scratch your paint if you happen to slip. it probably took me about 45 minutes to an hour to install the trim on each window. all in all it was totally worth the 160-200$ i saved, anybody can do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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