280zwitha383 Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 You know how you get when you can't go to sleep at night because a project keeps floating through your head? Well, here's what's been going through mine and I haven't done enough research to post it officially so I'm just going to throw it out here in the non-tech board and see what all of you think about it. Here's what I've got already: - 5.7L vortec complete engine minus - 1.6 ratio rocker arms (haven't looked into how much these might help if any so at this point they are optional but I would think for the added lift and less friction they would be worth throwing on) Here's what I'd like to get: - New t70 from ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Turbo-Kit-T70-Turbo-HKS-STYLE-WASTEGATE-BOV-NEW_W0QQitemZ8052800307QQcategoryZ33742QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem I've seen and heard bad things about their older products but I've also read two success stories with their newer turbos - 8.5:1 CAST pistons if I can find them(yeah I wasn't playing when I said budget... ) - I will gladly buy a larger oil pan to keep the oil cooler and abounding, and I'll probably run supertech fully synthetic oil. And that's pretty much as far as I've got so far. I plan to flip the stock manifolds, run the stock cam, and I haven't decided what to do about the fuel delivery. I'm prone to run a blowthrough carb as described here: http://www.hangar18fabrication.com/blowthru. My other option is to try and keep the vortec FI which I know very little about. I can't find any information on the internet about modifying it with bigger injector(s?) and it seems that some people have had problems with the poppets. If anyone knows anything about these injection systems please clue me in. If I determine that I can run the FI I would love to and try my hand at megasquirt. However, I estimate this will add approximately 1 year to the time I get this thing running (haha, I laugh but it's probably not far from the truth). Anyway, if I was to run 10psi I think I could come close to 500whp which is my goal. Oh yeah, I want to run 87 octane gas... Now I haven't decided on anything, I'm waiting for my Maximum Boost book and I'm getting kinda T.O.ed that it hasn't come in yet. After all it's already been 5 days.... I will give the book a few good reads and then probably start buying stuff. I don't expect to throw this thing together very quickly but I'm dying to feel a boosted v8. I've been spending the last couple of days on www.turbomustangs.com which I wasn't too fond of the idea at first but they have a whole section for boosted chevy engines. I have also read two very thorough write-ups and I think I have a pretty good grasp on the theory. So, what do you guys think? And NO, I haven't been puffing on anything. My thinking is that since this will be my first turbo engine I don't want to dump too much into it and it if blows sky high I'll have some experience, learn from my mistakes, then build a beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 That ebay T70 isn't the same as everyone elses T70. It is not even a 70mm wheel. It's 60.5mm. Why 87 octane. You know what detonation does, especially to cast pistons? It's asking for probelms. If 91 is too expensive I would skip the turbo idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 I agree with Clifton.. if you want a true performance motor.. be prepared to spend the money .. power doesnt come cheap 91 octane is about $0.40 more than 85 octane.. thats too much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleh Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 that turbo is basicly garbage. buy a decent turbo atleast. also, might want to rethink about running 87...like everyone else said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some-Guy Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 i hate those blow off valves that you can hear they annoy the hell out of me...atleast the super loud ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted April 11, 2006 Author Share Posted April 11, 2006 I think you guys are missing the point of building this engine. I'm not necessarily trying to make the cheapest power, I just want to see if it can be done. I think it would be pretty cool, you might not.... I have the money to build a better engine but the point is noone else that I have seen is doing anything like this and it seems this is the place to go for people who are trying to be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olie05 Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 ok i'm going to be the optimist here. You can get away with all your goals except for the 91-93 octane gas. I have to admit, I didn't give it a second thought about what kind of gas I would have to run when I first ordered my flat top pistons, I just kinda knew It would work on pump gas and that was ok with me. Once I built the engine and started reading more about CR's and such, I vowed to always run the highest octane I could afford (93 (r+m)/2) now back to your story, I gaurantee that when you get that maximum boost book, you will read something about running High octane fuel. Hopefully that will change your mind about 87... Another thing to consider, If you do go with a fuel injection setup,(with proper tuning) you will be getting the same amount of $/mile on 93 octane as you would have on 87 with the blow through carb setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 I think you guys are missing the point of building this engine. I'm not necessarily trying to make the cheapest power, I just want to see if it can be done. I think it would be pretty cool, you might not.... I have the money to build a better engine but the point is noone else that I have seen is doing anything like this and it seems this is the place to go for people who are trying to be different. Try building it for your first engine and get it done. You'll learn a lot along the way too. As far as the turbo brand is concerned, they claim Garrett internals, but I think the snails are made in China---make sure you let us know how these pieces hold up. Good luck Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted April 11, 2006 Author Share Posted April 11, 2006 Try building it for your first engine and get it done. You'll learn a lot along the way too. Davy Exactly, my friend suggested taking my 383 with all forged internals, full roller, aftermarket heads (blah blah) and putting lower compression pistons (forged) in it and running the turbo. First of all, there's no way in heck I'm going to run a $350 turbo on a $4,000+ setup! There's really no way I'm going to run a high end turbo or any kind of boost whatsoever on a $4,000+ setup as my first turbo build. I don't trust myself enough to put that kind money on the line with something that I'm not that familiar with. I guess I should have stated my intents to begin with that way there wouldn't be a discussion on what I should do but rather what could be done. My goals and expectations: - Build a 500rwhp (at under 5500rpm) engine with as few modifications as possible to the engine, atleast internally - Run the engine on 87 octane gas, I don't give a hoot if the 93 octane gas runs 30 more horsepower, has less tendency to detonate, costs $.30 more a gallon, whatever (they don't even sell 93 octane here btw, best I've seen is 92 and that's only at 1 place in town. The rest are 91). I want to run it on 87 octane to say that it runs on 87 octane. Now with that said, I will start the engine off runnig the highest grade I can find at a very low boost level with very little timing until I'm VERY certain I have everything exacltly how it needs to be. - Have a powerful yet readily replaceable engine for fun only. This will not be a daily driver and if one day I get one long stretch of good boost and then it grenades then so be it. I won't have too much money into it and I'm sure there will be something that's salvageable. I know that pretty much no aspect of the build is ideal, it is pushing the limits but I THINK it can be done (once I read Maximum Boost I may change my mind on my hp expectations but so far I'm pretty set on doing the build anyway). If in the end all I have is a very torquey 350rwhp 350 vortec single turbo pushing 6psi I will have only spent $1k-$2k on a very respectable build. Atleast that's my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNeedForZ Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 See what happens when you ask about something out of ordinary? My two cents are that if you want to use gasoline that is less than detonation resistant, you should make up for the loss in detonation resistance from other departments, like homogeneity of mixture, quench, COOLING, location/duration of spark, coating for exhaust valves/exhaust port walls, use a higher pressure radiator cap, change coolant or coolant paths, maybe even construct oil squirters to help cool the pistons. Most of those things are one time expense only so their benefit don't wear out over time and you get to keep those benefits as long as you are using the same bottom end. What naysayer don't understand is that there is no such restriction as an 87octane turbo v8 because one can always go higher in oct numbers. So the real name of the project is "I did everything I can to stop detonation, now let's see if I can get a way with using 87." Sounds like an interesting project. In the end, you'll be very satisfied whatever the outcomes are, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted April 11, 2006 Author Share Posted April 11, 2006 You know what detonation does, especially to cast pistons? It's asking for probelms. If 91 is too expensive I would skip the turbo idea. Well the reason I want to run cast pistons is because if detonation occurs it will poke a hole in the piston and not shatter like a hypereutectic piston would. Right? I would rather run cast pistons under detonation than hypers because once a hyper piston shatters it goes all through the engine and pretty much messes up everything. If I'm wrong on that please correct me. I don't have a problem at all paying $320 for a set of forged 8.**:1 pistons but once again I think there's another (not necessarily better) way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNeedForZ Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 I think he meant cast vs forged, since hypereutetic pistons are cast as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted April 11, 2006 Author Share Posted April 11, 2006 "See what happens when you ask about something out of ordinary?" Well I see now... haha. I think he meant cast vs forged, since hypereutetic pistons are cast as well. Oh ok. In my mind you have cast, hypereutectic, and forged. When I say "cast" I'm referring to cast aluminum pistons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 ...but the point is noone else that I have seen is doing anything like this ... Maybe that should tell you something. You could bolt a gas powered leaf blower to your intake too. That would be different. Still doesn't make it a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 Well the reason I want to run cast pistons is because if detonation occurs it will poke a hole in the piston and not shatter like a hypereutectic piston would. Right? I would rather run cast pistons under detonation than hypers because once a hyper piston shatters it goes all through the engine and pretty much messes up everything. If I'm wrong on that please correct me. I don't have a problem at all paying $320 for a set of forged 8.**:1 pistons but once again I think there's another (not necessarily better) way. I run cast pistons too. Cast pistons are weaker, although forged or cast both will not tolerate prolonged deto. Ring lands will break first if it knocks and you can't hear it to get out of it. Here the highest pump is 91. To say, I did it with 87 octane is like saying I race without a seat belt. You can do it but why take the risk? It isn't going to impress anyone and it isn't worth risking a motor for bragging rights. If you don't knock you'll be on the edge of it. It will eventually get you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted April 11, 2006 Author Share Posted April 11, 2006 AAAHHH! My Maximum Boost book came in and I only got through the first 4 pages but I can tell I'm really going to enjoy reading it. Also, if nothing else for the sake of maybe getting some advice on something other than the octane of fuel I'll be running, let's assume I will run 91 octane gas.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
331CI 280z Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Did someone say 85 octane?? We don't have it around here. Standard gas is 87, 89, 91 and 93. We no longer have Sunoco Ultra 94 in my area. No E-85 either. I work for the state, and they are the only ones to have E-85 for fleet use. Today's price of 87 - $2.75 91 $2.99 at the local 7 Eleven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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