nienberg.11 Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Guys, my a/c has run low enough on r12 that it won't turn on anymore. I know that r12 is illegal, but my dad seems to be able to get it anyways back home and he recommended that I just have it charged. So I got on the phone and tried to find some shady auto repair places here in Columbus that would fill me up with r12, but no one would play along. They all said that I was out of luck or would have to pay $300-$400 to have the system converted to r134 and filled up, which is plenty steep for me since I'm a poor college kid. So my question is, what have you all had to do to keep your a/c running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olie05 Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 They sell the conversion kits at autozone. Doesn't seem that hard, jsut replace the o-rings and recharge the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nienberg.11 Posted May 4, 2006 Author Share Posted May 4, 2006 I wish it were that simple, but one of the mechanics I spoke with told me that all of the following steps must be done or the system will be contaminated, causing the compressor to lock up after a while. -Oil in the compressor changed -Compressor O-rings changed -New receiver/dryer installed -lines flushed -R134 added He mentioned using a special kind of vacuum to get all of the r12 out of the system also. I'm going to look into that kit anyways though, and if it's dramatically cheaper I'll give it a shot and hope for the best since I wouldn't be ruining anything vital or valuable. Thanks for the tip. Edit: after searching autozone's website I came up with nothing matching that kit. I suppose I'll call and see if they know what I'm talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 The hard part to refilling your R12 is getting the gas. Since you have it, or access to it, its not that big of a deal to refill a system. Long as the system hasn't been "opened up" and left that way for all kinds of moisture and trash to get in the syst., you should be able to refill it yourself.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumo Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 If your system is only low on R12 and you haven't opened it up yet do what my brother and i did. Go on E-bay and look up Freeze 12 kits, they sell for around $40-50. We did this to my brothers 89 Acura Legend and the kit includes the charge hose, one oil charge, three cans freeze 12 and two adapter valves. You will need to remove the schrader valve, put on the freeze 12 adapter vavles. Then put the oil in first after that put two cans only of the Freeze 12. It took about two years before i refilled it with the other extra freeze 12. Be careful of overfilling it, it's like the new freon 134A you put too much and it will actually get warmer. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Freeze-12-Pro-Quick-Charge-Kit-R12-R134a-Alternate-A-C_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ46094QQitemZ8060926270QQrdZ1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nienberg.11 Posted May 5, 2006 Author Share Posted May 5, 2006 Thanks for the link Sumo, I just bought one of those. J Soileau, I asked my dad if he still knew anyone that could get r12 and he said he didn't, but this kit is only $48 with shipping, so whatev. As far as the system being open, it hasn't been. The a/c would still get sort of cold up until this spring when it shut off due to low pressure, so I'm confident that it's uncontaminated. The only issue I worry about is the old, cracking hoses on the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paz8 Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Find the sight glass on the system, with the compressor running you can see the liquid refrigerant moving through the system. You charge it until all the bubbles in the sight glass are gone, try not to get any air in the system when you charge it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nienberg.11 Posted May 5, 2006 Author Share Posted May 5, 2006 Interesting. I did not know there was such a thing. I'll look for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcelectronics Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 http://www.refrigerantsales.com/autofrost.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean73 Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 You can buy R12 legally with an EPA 609 certification, which you can get by taking a simple online test. They sell R12 all day long on Ebay. I can buy it locally here in Arizona at my local AC parts shop. I'm running R12 in my 240Z and it works great. First check and make sure that your compressor is not seized before you do anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nienberg.11 Posted May 5, 2006 Author Share Posted May 5, 2006 KC, I think that's the same refrigerant that I bought on ebay from Sumo's recommendation and it looks pretty promising. If I had kept talking only to local mechanics I'm sure I wouldn't have found out about a cheap alternative like that. Sean73, I'm glad to hear that even in AZ you're being kept cold enough by Z a/c. I've never had mine running on a full charge of freon and I'm hoping that it's going to be dramatically colder. Most of you probably have the same interior cooling issues as me (hot tranny tunnel, poor weather stripping, no uv protection in the window glass, etc) and I also have a black interior so I need all the coldness I can get. Oh btw, the compressor isnt locked up. The belt for it is on, and it's spinning. It just won't engage because of the lack of refrigerant. Have any of you had issues with the ducts inside the car? I was kind of shocked to see how flimsy they are, plus the fact that all of the foam seals on the ends of mine have long since turned to dust. Also, in the past I've had vacuum issues where I could have cold a/c coming from the vents, and hot defrost all at the same time which is a little counterproductive. I don't know where the vac lines that open and close the different vents are located to check them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezzzzzzz Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 There is a magnetic clutch on the front of the compressor. If it isn't energized you are only seeing the clutch freewheeling and assuming the compressor is good. You need to supply 12v to the power lead off the compressor clutch to test for proper operation of the clutch and compressor. It can be done with a short wire from the battery to the compressor clutch power lead. Just leave the car idling, connect one end of the wire to the clutch power lead and touch the other end to the battery B+. If the compressor is frozen then the belt will squeal like hell and scare the crap out of you. Otherwise, the engine will slightly load down from the compressor as expected. Don't leave the wire on any longer than needed to test the compressor since your freon is apparently low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nienberg.11 Posted May 5, 2006 Author Share Posted May 5, 2006 There is a magnetic clutch on the front of the compressor. If it isn't energized you are only seeing the clutch freewheeling and assuming the compressor is good. You need to supply 12v to the power lead off the compressor clutch to test for proper operation of the clutch and compressor. It can be done with a short wire from the battery to the compressor clutch power lead. Just leave the car idling, connect one end of the wire to the clutch power lead and touch the other end to the battery B+. If the compressor is frozen then the belt will squeal like hell and scare the crap out of you. Otherwise, the engine will slightly load down from the compressor as expected. Don't leave the wire on any longer than needed to test the compressor since your freon is apparently low. Yeah, I'm well aware of the fact that the a/c is only really compressing when that clutch is engaged. The only assumption I'm making is that nothing has gone catastrophically wrong with the compressor within the last week or two. Also, in my first hand experience with a/c compressors tying up on modern cars it makes no difference if you switch them off or not. They're still tied up and you're still S.O.L. if you need your serpentine belt to wrap around them. If you read my earlier posts the system was working until very recently, and now the magnetic clutch you're referring to won't kick on because of the low pressure switch. The freon levels had been on the low side for some time and this wasn't unexpected. I'm confident that with a full charge it will be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Have any of you had issues with the ducts inside the car? I was kind of shocked to see how flimsy they are, plus the fact that all of the foam seals on the ends of mine have long since turned to dust. I ran 3" flexable duct from the box to the vent outlets. It was a PITA but moves a little more air. I also ran the blower motor off relays so I don't have as much of a voltage drop. I also run R12 in Az. In a 240 it is pretty good till 100*, above that it just doesn't quite cut it. If you top it off yourself, clear the line by letting a little refrigerant out at the schrader valve end of the can tap hose or manifold gauges if you are using those. You don't want that air in the system. Also fill the low pressure side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nienberg.11 Posted May 5, 2006 Author Share Posted May 5, 2006 I ran 3" flexable duct from the box to the vent outlets. It was a PITA but moves a little more air. I also ran the blower motor off relays so I don't have as much of a voltage drop. I also run R12 in Az. In a 240 it is pretty good till 100*' date=' above that it just doesn't quite cut it. If you top it off yourself, clear the line by letting a little refrigerant out at the schrader valve end of the can tap hose or manifold gauges if you are using those. You don't want that air in the system. Also fill the low pressure side.[/quote'] Thanks for the tips. I will make sure to bleed the air out of it, and I might have to copy your idea with the relay on the blower. From the sound of it, people haven't been too impressed with fitting aftermarket blowers into s30's, and the stock unit isn't bad with its current wiring, so I'm sure it would be fine with better voltage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 From the sound of it, people haven't been too impressed with fitting aftermarket blowers into s30's, and the stock unit isn't bad with its current wiring, so I'm sure it would be fine with better voltage. I guess it depneds on how much you need out of it. You need everything you can get when it's 110*. I've tired a few motors. The Honda and Jeep motors do blow a little more. Enough to notice but it still won't be like a newer car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBK Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 guys there are alot of options for older R12 systems out there. I do heat/air and refrigeration. R414B (hotshot) RB276 (freeze one) Most HVAC guys carry one or the other and most glad to charge for you, but wont work on anything else that may be a prob, they will tell you to take it to a shop . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBK Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 Also there is a new one out called ONESHOT , havent used it but they are getting good reviews of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 the autozone R134a kit worked great on my ZX, it actually has the oil in the freon or something like that. It says that it will make your A/C blow colder then stock too. All you have to do is change the fitting and thats it, took about 20 minuts, but thats becuase I had a leak that I had to attend to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 the autozone R134a kit worked great on my ZX, it actually has the oil in the freon or something like that. It says that it will make your A/C blow colder then stock too. All you have to do is change the fitting and thats it, took about 20 minuts, but thats becuase I had a leak that I had to attend to. R134 won't be as cold as R12 in an R12 system. Did you evacuate the system before recharging? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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