tube80z Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 What is immediately apparent is that the end is larger OD than the ID of the tie rod. Cary, what did you do about this? I know you said cut a slot down the side of the tube, but it seems like the thing to do is to grind down the OD of the tie rod so that it slips into the tube. The pic that you showed of Kipperman's car is small, but it looked to me like the tie rod was a lot smaller than the tube and the tube had to be crimped down to fit, so I was pretty surprised when I found the opposite this morning. The tie-rod part won't fit in the tube? A couple of options. You can slit the tube with your grinder lengthwise and see if that will let you slide the tie-rod part in. Or you can do a simple butt weld to hold the pieces together and use a piece of tubing that goes over both for the final weld. Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 Well I got a wild hair up my butt and just finished them. I didn't preheat, but I did do the plug welding and the weld around the end. They didn't come out straight. They're not horrible, but they're not straight either. It has more to do with the way the stock tie rod is machined than anything else, and it really doesn't matter much anyway, so I'm just not going to worry about that. They look good though, and I didn't have to pay for any machine work, so that was good. Maybe I'll take some pics tomorrow. Pretty soon I'm going to have to throw the front suspension together one last time and see if everything is going to fit and work the way I want. It's nice to think that the front suspension work is almost done, just a couple days more work (maybe 8-10 hours or so at my pace) and some paint and it will be good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 3, 2006 Author Share Posted August 3, 2006 Pics of the tie rods: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Jon, those look pretty good. Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 3, 2006 Author Share Posted August 3, 2006 Thanks Cary, it was all your idea (again). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preith Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Very nice Jon! I may go this route as an interim solution to the stock car rack, but I'd really like to find a way to convert the inners to rod ends as well. I must be getting more anal with age, and not to rain on your parade, but I wonder if there would have been a way to turn down the old tie rods on a lathe and get a really nice tight fit, one which would require preheating as Cary mentioned. I don't have a pair of tie rods in front of me, but perhaps one could cut off the outer end, chuck that side up and cut if off the remainder afterwards. I know they're tapered, but perhaps they could be centered with a dian indicator...just thinking out loud. Heh, unfortunatly for me I lost my free machinist connection; he persued a career in law inforcement, doh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 3, 2006 Author Share Posted August 3, 2006 I think if that piece could have been chucked up in a lathe then yes, it could have been turned to exactly the right OD to fit perfectly in the tube. The way I did it you kinda had to tap it in, and then I left a little flare at the end. When I hammered the end of the tie rod into the tube it flared the tube end just a smidge. Then it was welded. Cary's preheating suggestion was for weld strength, not for fitment. I agree with your point though. I just happen to be poor, so I am trying to make the best of it without incurring machining costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preith Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 I think if that piece could have been chucked up in a lathe then yes' date=' it could have been turned to exactly the right OD to fit perfectly in the tube. The way I did it you kinda had to tap it in, and then I left a little flare at the end. When I hammered the end of the tie rod into the tube it flared the tube end just a smidge. Then it was welded. Cary's preheating suggestion was for weld strength, not for fitment. I agree with your point though. I just happen to be poor, so I am trying to make the best of it without incurring machining costs.[/quote'] My bad, I should have thought about it a little more, you mentioned the tubing was pretty thin, so agreed, fitment wouldn't be an issue. I knew the machining cost statement was coming next...I'm surprised you can't find a small, one-man shop in your area for work like that. I had another source like that who only took cash, and was very cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 3, 2006 Author Share Posted August 3, 2006 You know, you're probably right about finding someone local, I just don't know where to look. I called a bunch of machinists in the phone book at one point when I was doing the poor man's toe adjuster and nobody wanted to help me. I must either come off crazy, or like an idiot, or both! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preith Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 You know, you're probably right about finding someone local, I just don't know where to look. I called a bunch of machinists in the phone book at one point when I was doing the poor man's toe adjuster and nobody wanted to help me. I must either come off crazy, or like an idiot, or both! Yeah I suppose it can be a bit trickey, he won't be in the yellow pages. I found my "cash only" guy through word of mouth at the autocross scene. Kind of a funny story, I was a bit intimidated by his establishment the first time I went there...house barely standing, junked cars everywhere, but he did good fabrication type work such as this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Very nice Jon! I may go this route as an interim solution to the stock car rack, but I'd really like to find a way to convert the inners to rod ends as well. Remove the inner tie-rod ends, chuck it in a lathe, and drill for a standard size bolt. Then build a clevice out of steel (drill a few holes, band saw, then dress with a grinder) that you bolt to the rack. This clevice will hold the rod end. Below is a pic of one way this can be done (not really a clevice). Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 3, 2006 Author Share Posted August 3, 2006 Weird. Can't seem to fix Cary's link. Just take the imgmax=640 off and it works. Got it: http://lh3.google.com/tube80z/RNJVMYW3ABI/AAAAAAAAARI/5aDEIRhwxAg/DSC03297.JPG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preith Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Remove the inner tie-rod ends' date=' chuck it in a lathe, and drill for a standard size bolt. Then build a clevice out of steel (drill a few holes, band saw, then dress with a grinder) that you bolt to the rack. This clevice will hold the rod end. Below is a pic of one way this can be done (not really a clevice). Cary [img']http://lh3.google.com/tube80z/RNJVMYW3ABI/AAAAAAAAARI/5aDEIRhwxAg/DSC03297.JPG?imgmax=640[/img] Thanks Cary. What I should have said was I've yet to study it and attempt to figure out a way, but it's nice to know it's been done. I'm still having a hard time visualizing it based off that pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 4, 2006 Author Share Posted August 4, 2006 That pic was a little confusing. I think he meant: Take a stock inner tie rod. Cut the ball part off the end, so that you're basically left with a flat piece of metal that screws onto the rack. If there is enough room, drill a 5/8" hole. If not, then weld two pieces of plate with a 5/8" hole in them onto the stub that is left so that you have a clevis. That's basically it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 That pic was a little confusing. I think he meant: Take a stock inner tie rod. Cut the ball part off the end, so that you're basically left with a flat piece of metal that screws onto the rack. If there is enough room, drill a 5/8" hole. If not, then weld two pieces of plate with a 5/8" hole in them onto the stub that is left so that you have a clevis. That's basically it. Take a look at the second pic at http://picasaweb.google.com/tube80z/Parts The inner is unscrewed the rack end drilled. If it still doesn't make sense let me know and I'll try powerpoint cad again Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 4, 2006 Author Share Posted August 4, 2006 OK, I get it. You're using that allen flat head bolt to attach a clevis to the end of the rack. That makes sense too I guess. I'd probably just hack the end of the inner off and weld the clevis to it, but I have a welder and not a mill. Either way you have a removeable clevis when it is all said and done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Jon, I'd like to see pictures of this difference in ID and the slotting you mentioned. Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 15, 2006 Author Share Posted August 15, 2006 I'd like to see pictures of this difference in ID and the slotting you mentioned. Not sure what you're referring to Owen. I think you're talking about the slotting that Cary had mentioned and the ID/OD mismatch of the tie rod and the tubing, so I'll respond the best I can based on that assumption. I'd estimate the tie rod was about 1/8" too large to fit into the ID of the tube. So I had to take 1/16" off the outside of the tie rod in order for it to slip into the tube. Cary had suggested slotting the sides of the tube, and I think this is because when Kipperman did his, he used a different tube which had a larger ID. This larger ID meant that the tie rod was really loose in the end of the tube. In order to make it easier to crush down around the end of the tie rod, he cut slots in the end of the tube. I didn't do that because I didn't have to neck the tubing down to fit it to the tie rod, instead I just took metal off the tie rod until it fit in tightly into the tube. I'm out of town, so I can't get at any pics right now, but if that's not the info you were looking for just let me know and I'll try to do better for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 Thanks Jon, I wasn't able to see the pix at the top of the page at work where I was reading this, but now that I'm at home, I see what's going on. Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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