wheelman Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Thanks for the info Dave. When I looked at Alsil's mustang rack install it wasn't that the rack was a different length but that it was installed quite a bit higher than the stock rack in relation to the crossmember. This meant the LCA and tie rod were not parallel in their arcs of motion which is where bump steer comes from. Alsil might have been able to change how the tie rod connected to the steering arm to adjust for the difference but he didn't When I looked at yours the LCA and tie rod are parallel. I think you could probably have left the LCA length alone and not had any more bump steer than you do now. Anyway it's a very clean install and if I decide to do mine I'll probably follow your lead, use the Suby rack and move the LCA pivot point up and out. Wheelman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Ok, I'm in the process of gathering parts to do this swap. So far I scored a 99 Forrester rack from the local JY for $100.00 and a spare crossmember for $20.00. I think I have enough info from this thread regarding the plumbing fittings and how to modify the crossmember. Where I need some guidance is how you guys solved the tie rod issues. There is some reference to replacing the inner tie rods but nothing about the outer tie rods. There is another thread where a MOOG outer tie rod is mentioned but the taper is different from stock. What was the u-joint you guys used to connect the steering shaft to the rack? ViperRedLS1Z, It almost sounds like you just moved the LCA pickup points to account for the additional width of the Subaru rack, is this true? When you mentioned the width of the rack was ~1" wider than the stock Z rack did that include everything from one outer tie rod end to the other or just the center section? Wheelman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastzcars Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 This post might be helpful for the tie end rods.http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=121254 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78zlt1 Posted August 30, 2007 Author Share Posted August 30, 2007 I did some work on my rack after hours of searching I found these parts that seem to work. TIE ROD INNER Volvo S80 01-05 part # 274179 These have the same inner thread as the subaru and the correct outer thread for the stock datsun outer tie rod. They do need to be slightly modified as seen in the photo. top is stock bottom both ends are cut down a bit, the reason they have to be shortened is they would otherwise bottom out. The stock datsun tie rods also needs to be shortened slightly. Top is stock , bottom is modified version. The U-joint adapter I found was. BORGESON part #012564 11/16-36 X 3/4 U-JOINTSMOOTH This has the correct spline to fit the subaru rack , I found a spacer in the tool box that was the correct OD, I just need to bore out the hole to the correct ID to slip on the datsun steering shaft that will need to be cut to the correct length and then weld these together. I was also able to use the subarus steel lines I just had to "massage them" to have them fit . I just need to adapt the supply and return to the GM pump and reservoir. I found some fittings that may work for the large ports on the rack GM TBI adapter fittings here : http://www.russellperformance.com/auto/adapt/adapt_fit_fuel-3-27.shtml This is the closest setup that I could come up with that is almost bolt on, there are probably other inner/outer combos that will work, But after many hours of research this is what I found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zgeezer Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Thanks for the great Info Fastzcars, I modified my rack, and I think I have clearance I can live with now, with the stock pulley. Now I'm trying to find a inner tie rod that will work, the threads on the subaru rack are M16-1.5 , Moog has the EV162 that would have been perfect but its M16-1 , I found this site http://www.valleycruisersnb.com/BallJts.htm, great info, but nothing that will work, Does anyone have any specs on other manufactures Inner tie rods? To find parts everyone wants a make and year , but have no specs like thread size, makes finding stuff damn near impossible. Mark said he got his u-joint from Borgenson , I will have to call them to see what they have available, I't looks to me that its 11/16 dia 36 spline shaft. the Plumbing is next on the list............... Before you jump to spend time & $ on the EV162, please read this post: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=118858&highlight=subaru+rack+sunny. Search on "subaru rack sunny" if this link does not work. The short story is that it may be possible to use the stock subaru inner tie rods with the very short outer tie rods from and early Datsun 1200 circa '68-'71. A fellow hybridzer from down under posted photos of his Z...Stock Subaru inners and stock Datsun outers for a "Bolt Up installation". He does caution that the Australian Subaru inners may be up to 2 inches shorter than the US version. If it is, then I can guarantee you that the machine work to shorten and rethread the Subaru rod will be much less than machining the E162 rod and Subaru rack. My horror story with the E162 inner tie rod ends is pretty well documented in my Album. Look under ZGEEZER. The short story for me was that the E162 inners combined with the 240-280(Itried them all) outer pushed the toe out beyond the adjustment range. The last time I looked the MOOG catalog contained at least three different Nissan outer ends that share thread spacing and rod size with my Subaru. There appear to be several other Subaru outer tie rod ends that are short and will thread onto the stock passenger car inner. Sorry for the long post, but I really believe we can find in MOOGs catalog a short outer tie rod end that will thread onto the Subaru and bolt into the Datsun arm. g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 78ZLT1, Do you know how much adjustability the combination of the Volvo inner and stock outer tie rods gives? I looked up the price of those inners and can get them for $25.00 each, which is a great price assuming they work and provide enough thread once the outers are modified to allow adjusting the toe to what I want. I normally run a little toe out but I don't want to be forced into that if I decide to align it more for street driving. I also just put new stock outers on the car so if I can retain them so much the better. BTW: Could you post some pictures of your rack assembled with the inner and outer tie rods? Wheelman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78zlt1 Posted August 31, 2007 Author Share Posted August 31, 2007 I think I should reiterate that I have a 2004 Subaru Forrester rack, all my info applies to it, I dont know if earlier racks have the same specs, Maybe we should comeup with a set of common dimensions/data and post it for each rack to see how they compare, I do know that the Subi inner tierods on my rack without the outers on were longer than the datsun's rack with its outers on, But the Subi's outer tirerod taper fit the datsun steering arm. I'll try to take som pictures and measurements today, My cars on the rotissery and wont be back together till bodywork and paint is done, God only knows how long that will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78zlt1 Posted August 31, 2007 Author Share Posted August 31, 2007 Here is my setup with the 2004 forrester rack , and the stock Datsun rack. The Datsun rack is as it was on the car when I took it off , and the Volvo/Datsun combo is screwed in till it stopped on the jam nuts so this is the minimum distance for the setup , the datsun rack can be adjusted in more. I wont really know if this will be good enough till I get the car back together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 78ZLT1, Thanks for the pictures, they really helped and the measurements will be invaluable to those of us attempting this swap. We should sticky this thread. I haven't started disassembling my rack yet but the measurement of the length of the main tube (18.5 inches) is the same and they visibly look the same so I would say the 99 Forrester rack is the same as the 04 Forrester rack. I measured the stock setup of the Subaru rack and it's 55 inches from the center of one tie rod bolt to the other. I'm thinking maybe ViperRedLS1Z's idea of moving the control arm pivot point out 1/2 inch on each side would give enough adjustability to satisfy me. Edit: Based on your pictures and measurements I don't think the MOOG outer tie rod mentioned in the other thread will work without shortening the Subaru inner tie rod. Wheelman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastzcars Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 I second the sticky! Great info 78LT1!!! Your install came out much cleaner than mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragefear Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 I'm jumping on so I can find it later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mileski Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 I saw somewhere in this thread that the power steering pump used was from a 2002 Chevy but I never saw what exact model it was from. Did I just miss it or was it not mentioned? Mike Mileski Tucson, AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperredls1z Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I saw somewhere in this thread that the power steering pump used was from a 2002 Chevy but I never saw what exact model it was from. Did I just miss it or was it not mentioned? That was me, I used the stock 02 camaro pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetride2go Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 ie: any GM type II powersteering pump should work i believe, or at least i hope so, since thats what i hav mounted on the block, haha... any updates on anyone who might make the smaller "o-ring fittings" for the rack??? i found a tubing place here that will make them down to 1/4", but the smaller two in the front front of the rack are to small i guess...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetride2go Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 'the GM type II pumps have a flow rate of 3gpm @ 850psi, whereas the ford racks are closer to 2gpm... the GM power steering pump exceeds recommended "flow" for a ford rack resulting in quick turning, and a "twitchy" feel while turning'... this is for ford racks in general, not necessarily ford racks in Zcars... although i believe (if memory serves me correctly) the GM pumps relief pressure was closer to 1300psi +/- (caprice interceptor LT1, camero LT1), depending on model... this was a concern for me when i started the project 3+ years ago, since the subaru's relief pressure is at 1067psi... but what the heck, its only almost 300psi rite?? lol... the pressure differences was my initial concern, as i was afraid that seal problems might arise from excessive pressure... but since then, several others have been using the type II pumps along with the subaru rack w/out any problems… or at least not that im aware of… haha.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mileski Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Does anyone know if you can put a standard v-belt pulley on the GM type II power steering pump? If I do this swap, I have a ZZ4 motor with standard pulleys that I'll have to adapt the pump to, thus requiring a standard v-belt. Mike Mileski Tucson, AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetride2go Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 yes, u can get one from Billet Specialties (BSP-12120 @summit), and i beleive Summit offers one as well, along w/ a universal mounting kit for the pump... ryan~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Hey 78zlt1, Mike Mileski noticed that the rack he bought has an 18 spline 5/8" input shaft. He brought it to my attention so I checked mine and it's the same. Could you give us a measurement of the size and spline count of yours? I know you said the Borgeson 11/16x36 u-joint would work but is that the exact size of the input shaft on your rack or will it just clamp down enough to work? Wheelman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78zlt1 Posted September 25, 2007 Author Share Posted September 25, 2007 Hey 78zlt1,Mike Mileski noticed that the rack he bought has an 18 spline 5/8" input shaft. He brought it to my attention so I checked mine and it's the same. Could you give us a measurement of the size and spline count of yours? I know you said the Borgeson 11/16x36 u-joint would work but is that the exact size of the input shaft on your rack or will it just clamp down enough to work? Wheelman The Splined shaft on my rack (2004 Forrester) measured .6835 and 36 splines ( I counted em ) , the Borgeson joint fits like a glove, sounds like yours is different if it only has 18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetride2go Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 mine has the coarser spline as well, but its out of a 95 impreza... i just canabilized one of the factory suby ujoints for my new steering shaft, tig welded it together... the factory suby fittings i cut and welded -4AN fittings onto, then ran to the tubing place and had some SS braided lines made... and if u use the right inner tierod, u can use the stock suby outers in the z w/ zero modifications... cheers =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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