Z-TARD Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Just ordered one of these for fit testing on my 240: http://shop.easternmarine.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=4724&categoryID=187 Although not listed on that particular page, I did some research and discovered that it has a 1500 lb. load rating. The bearings it uses are the same ones found on the Z car front hubs: LM11949 (.75" ID) and LM67048 (1.25" ID). These are similar, if not identical to the hubs discussed in this thread:http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?p=557224#post557224 The plan is to use these to mount my 13" Cobra rotors. I'll also be using the PBR 2 piston calipers from the mustang Cobra as well. These should be pretty close to zero offset, so I may be able to use the Modern Motorsport Cobra Brake kit http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=61 At $39.00 each, these are a lot cheaper than the billet aluminum hubs available. One concern I have over these is of course the overall strength. They are designed for carrying 1500 pounds per hub, more than enough for the 240Z regardless of what pig of an engine resides under the hood. I'm kind of worried about their durability under cornering and braking though. they appear to be made of cast iron, probably similar to the original Z hubs, but if the material is not as high quality as automotive style hubs, some problems could manifest themselves under hard use. If everything fits okay dimensionally, I might do some destructive testing on it to see how well it compares to a stock hub. I'll post some pics once I get it mounted up. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipzoomie Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Very interesting. I take care of landscaping equipment for a local company. The trailers are heavy and usually carry four to five thousand pounds of equipment. Other than an occasional bearing failure there has been no hub failures. And these trailers get abused beyond imagination. I'm constantly replacing shredded tires and bent rims. But no hubs. I don't know for sure but I would imagine that trailer hubs must meet some D O T standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted June 19, 2006 Author Share Posted June 19, 2006 Yeah, I'm sure there has to be some kind of DOT standard for trailer hubs. It's good to know that you haven't seen a hub failure. If these were made out of some kind of brittle casting, I'm sure you would have seen a few pop by now. Are the trailers you guys use a 5 lug setup? I'd be interested to know some of the specs for those hubs like bearing sizes, etc. The flange on the one I purchased looks pretty beefy, so hopefully it should stand up to quite a bit of side loading. If it looks at all questionable, I'm going to sacrifice it as a destructive test piece just to see how much abuse it will take. In simple terms, if it looks like it might not be up to the task at hand I'm going to beat the living f%$# out of it with a sledge hammer, along with a stock datsun unit for comparison. My only other concern is the diameter of the outer hub, and if the Cobra rotor will slip over it. Unless I get really lucky, I'll either end up machining off some of the outer diameter on a lathe, or making a spacer to properly center the rotor on the hub. It should show up in the mail within a week or two, pics shortly after that. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Your other concern should be the spacing of the bearings. Even if the same bearings are used, if the they are farther a part or closer together then the 240Z hub, the trailer hubs won't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted June 19, 2006 Author Share Posted June 19, 2006 Your other concern should be the spacing of the bearings. Even if the same bearings are used, if the they are farther a part or closer together then the 240Z hub, the trailer hubs won't work. True. If the spacing is too narrow I'm pretty much screwed. If it's too wide though, I can always press out the races and then bore the seats out to the correct depth, which as an added benefit would allow me to have some level of control over the offset. I'm crossing my fingers on this one.... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipzoomie Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 The hubs I use are Dexter. 4 1/2 inch blot circle. 5 lug. They're as beefy as any car hub that i've seen. I have a spare hub in the shop. If I have some time today I'll try it on a Z spindle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipzoomie Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Well............. I compared the Dexter hub with the 280Z hub. Not even close. The next time I go to the supply house I'll check their inventory. Mike, Let us know what you find with your hub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted June 21, 2006 Author Share Posted June 21, 2006 Thanks Skipzoomie, I figured it might be a longshot considering how many variations there are for these hubs. From what I've noticed, the hubs with the same bearings as our datsuns are sort of rare. I'll definitely post results once I get mine out here. My Z is patiently waiting in the garage on jackstands. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zcarnut Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 ...From what I've noticed, the hubs with the same bearings as our datsuns are sort of rare.... Actually, there are several other hubs that use the same wheel bearings as the Z car. The 1970-89 Z used a fairly common inner and outer wheel bearing set. BMW, Toyota and even some GM vehicles of the 1970’s and early 1980’s come to mind. I have a full list of applications somewhere on one of my floppies. I will look for it. A concern is finding a suitable inner grease seal that will work. I have used BMW and Toyota (early Supra and Cressida) hubs on the Z car struts. However, these hubs were the four-lug type. If you want a five-lug hub then I would pursue finding one the suitable GM hubs (which I have not investigated). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iaconsultants Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Very interesting and I hope this really works out well. There is another option that you can look into since you have your Z hub. How about take all the measurments from the hub that you need to have one machined out of aluminum and 5 lug pattern. This could be a reasonable price if enough of the people on here are willing to buy them also. My plan is to have some machined with the spacer built in so that I can have easy time finding 5 lug wheels with no worry about using a spacer, since so many tire places will not deal with cars that have wheel spacers. If you need help with this kind of stuff let me know and I will do what I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Actually, there are several other hubs that use the same wheel bearings as the Z car. The 1970-89 Z used a fairly common inner and outer wheel bearing set. BMW, Toyota and even some GM vehicles of the 1970’s and early 1980’s come to mind. I have a full list of applications somewhere on one of my floppies. I will look for it. A concern is finding a suitable inner grease seal that will work. I think the GM hubs generally have 5 on 5 patterns, where a lot of guys are looking for 5 on 4.5. I think 240hoke is using insanely light Vette hubs or Camaro hubs with PBR brakes. He'd be able to help with the GM issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted June 23, 2006 Author Share Posted June 23, 2006 Very interesting and I hope this really works out well. There is another option that you can look into since you have your Z hub. How about take all the measurments from the hub that you need to have one machined out of aluminum and 5 lug pattern. This could be a reasonable price if enough of the people on here are willing to buy them also. My plan is to have some machined with the spacer built in so that I can have easy time finding 5 lug wheels with no worry about using a spacer, since so many tire places will not deal with cars that have wheel spacers. If you need help with this kind of stuff let me know and I will do what I can. Modern Motorsports actually already makes aluminum hubs pretty much just like you have described. They come in either the zero offset required for the cobra 13" rotors, or the approx. +3/4" offset of the 300ZX hub. I'm still considering these as an option, but I'm trying to exhaust all of the cheaper alternatives first. http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=60 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted June 23, 2006 Author Share Posted June 23, 2006 I was really hoping to title this one "Fits like a glove!" but unfortunately it's not quite there. Like JohnC warned, the bearing spacing is off by about .25". It's just enough to prevent the spindle nut from going on far enough to lock into place with a cotter pin. The good news is that this can be bored out to the correct depth on a lathe and it should work out just fine. Another issue is with the overall diameter of the hub itself. At about 6 7/8" in diameter, it's just barely to big to fit inside of the Cobra brake rotor. While it's on the lathe being bored out, I'll shave enough off to make it fit. The final issue is the grease seal on the back of the hub, the trailer hub comes with a 1.6" grease seal, which is too small, the bore that it fits in is also too small to take the stock datsun grease seal, so it will have to be bored out as well. So in a nutshell, it will work perfectly once the following machining operations are done: 1) Increase depth of outer bearing race bore by approx. .25" 2) Increase bore diameter on inner hub to accept factory Datsun grease seal. 3) Shave approx. 1/16" from outer diameter to clearance for Cobra brake rotors. The offset of the trailer hubs puts them back very close to the original offset of the factory hubs. They sit inboard approx. 3/4" from where the 300ZX hubs outer face is. The hub itself is quite beefy. Even without beating this to a pulp I have the feeling that it will take a lot of punishment before failure. The flange is over 5/8" thick, and the casting is very smooth which normally indicates a reasonably dense structure. Having said this, I think I will still order an extra one to thrash on. Peace of mind and all...... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted June 23, 2006 Author Share Posted June 23, 2006 Okay, here are some pics of both the 300ZX hub and the trailer hub on a 240Z spindle for comparison. I don't have my original 240 hubs anymore, so I'm not sure how close the new hub is to the factory offset. 300ZX @ 3.770" distance from caliper mounting ear: And the new trailer hub @ 2.930" distance from caliper mounting ear: Measured the bearing spacing with a set of dial calipers, the new hubs will have to have the outer bearing race moved inboard by .325" instead of the .25" I guessed at earlier. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted June 26, 2006 Author Share Posted June 26, 2006 Any chance someone with a 240/260/280 with original hubs could measure the distance from caliper mount to outer hub flange? I seem to have misplaced mine.... If I can get the trailer hubs to sit at the same offset, the Modern Motorsport Cobra brake kit will work with them once I get the other minor machining work done. Thanks, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rp975 Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 I was going to use trailer hubs here in Australia as they would give me the correct offset, but my engineer didn't like the idea so I bought a pair from Hoppers Stoppers as part of a front brake package. They are made from 4140 and have a ford stud pattern 5 x 4.5" and are used with the disc rotor going on the outside which then moves the wheel out 9mm from standard. This may not be of much use as I am in Australia, but the concern would be the strength of the trailer hubs, as trailers probably don't have that much side thrust. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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