V07 update

[rayaapp2]

Just got off the phone with the tech from Jim Wolf technology.

 

Just as 1 fast z had said they couldn't bore past a few mm. Their tolerances were even more than 1 fast z had said was acceptable max. At 89.5mm they filled the water jack up to the top of the top piston ring height @ BDC.

 

They said also that there was a early edition LD block that was not imported state side that wasn't siemessed. That it would be good for a sleeved application.

 

The deal with sleeving as described to me is that there is a problem with the oil gallery feeding the head. He also mentioned the biggest block he had seen was around 3.5L sleeved with a 92mm crank available back in the '70s aftermarket.

 

So a 4L was ever so slightly exagerated. I don't like to call someone a liar and I will give Jerry the benifit of the doubt. I could have miss understood him or he could have been having a dislexic day or something. His motor sits around 3.1L so I have no idea where the other numbers came from.

 

So it looks to me as I will be building a 3.0 L stroker engine.

 

So now that everyone is telling me the same thing I hope to have the truth. I like it when everyone can agree.

 

 

So it looks like

pistons- custom Ross based on KA24E 89mm dished 40.05 pin height 25.4mm floating pin probably change the ring heights as well. Offset should be good.

crank - LD28 lightened micro polish etc

rods - L20B Carrillo H rods w/ 25.4mm piston side bore.

block - LD28 bored 89mm devcon steel epoxy as specified, and a lot of minor machine work.

 

So there you have it.

I'm still a long way from physically starting anything, so expect changes and additions. My site will be up soon with detailed information.

 

Thanks for the help

[Bob_H]

.....

So it looks like

......block - LD28 bored 89mm devcon steel epoxy as specified' date=' and a lot of minor machine work.[/b']

......

 

Why stick with the LD28 block and do all that work? The F54 or N42 blocks don't start out with an 84mm bore - and you have more room to spare,(i.e. a smaller overbore). You can just prep the block properly and overbore it ~2-3mm instead of sleeving a LD block. It just doesn't make sense. Thats a lot of work for the same effect.

-Bob

(The Datsun Workshop author - old and outdated, but still relevant).

[rayaapp2]

To use the taller deck height, to get a better rod angle, to reduce wear and problems. It's worth the small amount of machine work. It's very little more than what I would have to do to a F54 block. I probably won't sleeve my block. I'm looking at building a 3.0L. It doesn't appear I will get much more diplacment from a F54 block anyway. The center bores are exactly the same. Basically I'm building a L20B 6 cylinder.

[Bob_H]

... It's very little more than what I would have to do to a F54 block. I probably won't sleeve my block. I'm looking at building a 3.0L. ...

 

Sleeving a block - that's not "minor". And if you don't sleeve it, you will be lucky to get that displacement.

I'm not trying to discourage you at all - After all I wrote a whole webpage 10 years ago about building a stroker. However, it seems to me as if you are trying to re-invent the wheel, netting a lot more work/cost for the same effect. For those who don't like the "bad rod angle" - I point to Dan Baldwin or John Coffey's, (well, he recently sold it) motors which put out in the neighborhood of 270+ rwhp. Dan's was a pump gas motor and I have driven it on the track. It was very tractable, had loads of torque, and redlined at 7000 rpm. To get much over 7000 rpm in the L6, (which in theory, the poor rod angle doesn't do so well at), requires some significant work on the crank, balancing, etc.. as harmonics in the crank come into play around 7500+ rpm. For all purposes, the short block on Dan's motor was a "budget" build - i.e. KA24 pistons, L24 rods, LD28 crank, basic machine work, etc..

There is no extra machining with a F54 block - it is the same cost/work to bore 1mm over as it is to bore 3mm over. Sleeving a block - which I recognize you said you might not do, requires a lot more work - but is certainly doable. And as for extra "wear" - I tore down my 3.1L motor with 25k hard miles on it and the only wear of any significance was my rod bearings. And that was directly attributed to my running hard and fast on the track,(I instruct), with a stock oil pan. Not a good idea...

Bottom line - I really can't see any real justification to going to all the extra work to make the LD block work when you don't gain anything other than the "better rod angle". Dan can spout all day about his "crappy rod angle" and how it has taken him to some of the fastest times on the track,(road course).

If you still want to pursue it - more power to you - I'm just trying to prevent lots of extra work and money for what might be minimal if any gain. (thinking cost per power gained).

-Bob

[Bob_H]

double post...

[rayaapp2]

The problem is that I am having a hard time finding good info.

 

What I am looking at is building the LD/V07 for about the same price as the F54. I have multiple sets of both engines. So that isn't a problem. I have rear sump LD blocks. The only machine work I was running into was the cam towers. DAW informs me I don't have to machine them using a specific BMW head bolt. So other than me tapping a few holes and pipe plugging them on the deck there is no other machine work if I am willing to stay within a reasonable bore, under 89mm.

 

Rods may be an additional cost if I don't stick with the L20B rods. My goal is 400 foot lbs of torque.

 

I wish we had more stonehenge type sites out there. I was feed a lot of miss information at first so I'm just trying to iron it out.

 

I'm leaning away from sleeving the block. After talking with people who have done it, it sounds as if there are way to many things that can easily go wrong and cost lots of money shortly down the road. I'd rather have the reliability.

 

I'm reading throught your site now, I've never come accross it before.

[Bob_H]

Some of the updates which aren't on my website would be mainly about the block - it doesn't really matter if you use the N42 or F54 block. I have seen both blocks used with very good success. Personal choice there.

As far as cylinder heads - the sky is the limit and choice largely doesn't matter once you define your goals,(which narrows the head selection).

Since you said 400 lb-ft of torque, I assume you are talking about a turbo.

I believe the last few paragraphs are now very outdated. There are people who have successful turbo strokers - with lots of power. And there are "stroker" grinds available from Sunbelt motors and a few others - but expect to pay a pretty penny as they require some special work, but have lower spring pressures, etc...

And good P-90A's are hard to find anymore, and there is a wealth of info on this site alone about cylinder heads. Turbo - stick with the P-90. Normally aspirated- N42 or "maxima" N-47 or regular N-47 are all good depending on your goals and planned cylinder head work.

If you are going turbo - I highly, highly suggest sticking with a plain 2.8L and spending your money and time on the turbo, intercooler, engine management, exhaust, etc.. The money spent there will far outweigh any return on your stroker until you get into the serious hp numbers.

-Bob

PS- check out my link page - there are a lot of good sites still linked - even if I need to update them.

[Tony D]

Smokey Yunick complained about the lack of deck height on the Small Block Chevy. You will notice that some of the aftermarket blocks now produced come with the taller deck height Smokey so bitterly complained about....

 

That aside, Isky makes a nice turbo grind and doesn't cost anything extra than their normal cam. If you call and talk with Ron there, and give him your engine specifics, they will grind just about anything you want for the standard cost of the cam---with as long as they have been working on the L-Engine Cams, usually one if their stock grinds will be suitable, they just set it up with a different lobe center, separation, or split the intake and exhaust grind (Like L4 Intake, and L9 Exhaust Lobes, as opposed to using an L4 L4 standard grind.) JeffP has had great time after getting that cam setup in his latest build, nice 7000+ rpm pulling setup.

 

We need to put some sacks of gravel in the back on his car to plant it more solidly for traction, when it passes through 45 to 4800rpm in third gear on boost (about 70mph), the back tires light up and start boiling gotta lift and short shift to try to get it to hook---that toasts the clutch. I told him we need to make a "New Darius Video" but we haven't gotten around to that yet. Haven't gotten the sacks of gravel, either.... LOL

 

I have said for years what Bob is saying: Stick with the 2.8, and just boost it! Electromotive had 720HP at 7500rpms in 1983, somewhere along the line people forgot how to do that I guess.