kj280z Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Hey all... You guys have done a great job of detailing the installation but I've been looking for detailed instructions on disassembling the transmission. My machinist would like to see some details on taking it apart (the tranny is at his place right now)... I've done some searching but have not had any luck... Can anyone steer me in the right direction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcheeze36 Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Just follow the assembly instructions backwards on the first post and you can also reference this thread by Booztd_3: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=119041 remove spring/ball/sleeve setup by first removing the 17mm bolt (http://album.hybridz.org/data/687/medium/IMG_2054.JPG and http://album.hybridz.org/data/687/medium/IMG_2053.JPG) on the inside of the bellhousing, remove the 9 front plate/cover bolts (http://www.booztd3.com/Pictures/RB%20Build-up/RB25_Trans_02.JPG), then remove the front cover/plate (http://www.booztd3.com/Pictures/RB%20Build-up/RB25_Trans_03.JPG) remove the large c-clip/snap ring on the main bearing (http://www.booztd3.com/Pictures/RB%20Build-up/RB25_Trans_04.JPG), and the small c-clip/snap ring and washer on the striking rod that comes through the bellhousing (http://www.booztd3.com/Pictures/RB%20Build-up/RB25_Trans_05.JPG) remove the bellhousing bolts to seperate the bellhousing from the case (http://album.hybridz.org/data/687/medium/IMG_2048.JPG). You might need a hammer to help seperate the 2 pieces. here's the thrust bearing (on right) and matching plate (on left) (http://album.hybridz.org/data/687/medium/IMG_2044.JPG) You'll find the thrust bearing on the countershaft here (http://album.hybridz.org/data/687/medium/IMG_2045.JPG) and the matching plate here (http://album.hybridz.org/data/687/medium/IMG_2046.JPG). Remove and keep them. I think that covers it. Don't forget to bag everything so you don't lose them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj280z Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Ok all I have an early mazworks adapter that I bought from a fellow hybrizer... PLEASE PROVIDE SOME FEEDBACK ON THESE FINDINGS! The adapter had 2 dowl pins which should have lined up with existing holes in the bellhousing but they do not - My tranny is from a 93 300zx NA from what I remember... After removing the dowl pins we were able to get the bolt patterns to match up but the hardware included leaves space which does not instill much confidence for alignment. I have included pictures... I have purchased shouldered bolts to remedy the situation but would love to get some feedback on correct dowl pin placement and if anyone else has experienced these issues. Also, just a bit of a pet peeve of mine - all the hardware on the mazworks setup is standard - while the whole rest of the car is metric - wish they'd have drilled and tapped it with metric threads and included metric hardware instead... I'd imagine if anyone else had to pull the dowl pins and tried to just bolt it together without replacing the bolts that they may have some unexplained clutch chatter... I've included a picture of the mcmaster bolts that hopefully will solve the problem... I'd actually like to make some adapters that remedy all of these little "gotcha's" so I'd like to talk more about others experiences... The first two photo's show the threaded hole on the adapter and the larger hole the bolts go through on the tranny - you can see the large difference in diameter... Here you can see where we had to remove the 2 dowl pins out of the adapter to get it to line up... An example of how much play there is in one of the holes (there is less in others) - but the lack of a shouldered bolt really causes some concern here due to the threads acting as a "file" inside the tranny side (bellhousing)... Here you can see the smaller holes with better clearance but still enough to cause concern... Again absent of the shouldered bolt which better aligns the two parts there could be enough "play" to cause some unwanted clutch chatter and other issues. McMAster bolts that we bought to remedy the clearance issues... slight reaming was required - we can only use these in 3 or 4 of the holes which should center everything and feel it will be enough to fix the problem. We'll use bolts with shoulders everywhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcheeze36 Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 I believe the mazworx adapters were for the Z32TT trannies, while Austin's is for the Z32 NA trannies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj280z Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 I believe the mazworx adapters were for the Z32TT trannies, while Austin's is for the Z32 NA trannies. I thought they're both the same???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big-phil Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 om my z31 trans I had the dowel holes machined into the bell housing when he was doing the other machine work. When I lined up the bolt holes the dowel holes didn't line up with anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Z32 NA and TT transmissions are exactly the same. EXACTLY the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj280z Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Z32 NA and TT transmissions are exactly the same. EXACTLY the same That's what I thought- so it does not explain the incorrect placement of dowl pins in the mazworks adapter still mystified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid240z Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 I remember reading that they have the same internals but the position of the starter on the bellhousing is at different locations. Can anyone verify this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 That adapter looks TERRIBLE!! I have never seen and up close picture of one...not too impressed... Shoulder bolts are NOT a fix for alignment in my opinion. You cannot properly align something based off of a cast reamed hole because the hole pattern is not controlled to any specifice tolerance (in fact many are pretty bad off). The only way to use a shoulder bolt would require useing a end mill and re-cut the holes off of a known pattern. The only accurately machined holes on the bell housing are the dowel pin holes. For my adapter a original dowel pin hole is used as a datum and then the other one is machined off of it. The instructions are in the download section of this site for those that are curious. My adapters have several advantages over the mazworks unit: 1.) Stronger ~.75" thick 2.) Beautiful machining!, individually cut to parallel. 3.) New SS dowel pins with instructions for machining 4.) All high grade metric hardware 5.) All holes are now heli coiled 6.) Tumbled and Anodized 7.) Strong shifter relocater I still have 8 spots left on the list for the current run...listed in the group buy: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=151039 Here is a high res picture of my adapter: http://gallery.voodoo-people.com/album926/IMG_3285?full=1 The only thing that I would change is making a 360 degree unit with a crank spacer so no machining is required. However cost would go up a good bit and I have yet to have a complaint about my adapters. I am planning to start work on a Z33 6 sped no machine adapter in the near future. I have a block and a trans I just gotta get to measuring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Whoa, Austin, a Z33 6 speed adapter?? I'd be more interested in this than the Z32 trans as I have a spare Z33 trans in the shed. Please keep me posted on this one since I'm not in any rush to start swapping transmissions. (Totally disgusted with the turbo car and it's thirst for transmissions at the moment. All time being spent on the LS1 car ) Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Yea shhhhhh, keep it on the DL. I already have a beautiful shifter relocator as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj280z Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 That adapter looks TERRIBLE!! I have never seen and up close picture of one...not too impressed... I agree that it requires improvement! Shoulder bolts are NOT a fix for alignment in my opinion. You cannot properly align something based off of a cast reamed hole because the hole pattern is not controlled to any specifice tolerance (in fact many are pretty bad off). The only way to use a shoulder bolt would require useing a end mill and re-cut the holes off of a known pattern. The only accurately machined holes on the bell housing are the dowel pin holes. For my adapter a original dowel pin hole is used as a datum and then the other one is machined off of it. The instructions are in the download section of this site for those that are curious. The shoulder bolts worked PERFECTLY - I tried it with both of my transmissions. The reamer leaves just enough space to make it perfect - I believe it is a viable option for anyone with a Mazworks adapter or another alternative. Austin and I spoke at length on the phone about the Pro's and Con's of the dowel pins vs. reaming the holes to accept the shoulder bolts - My opinion is that both alternatives are acceptable. My adapters have several advantages over the mazworks unit: 1.) Stronger ~.75" thick 2.) Beautiful machining!, individually cut to parallel. 3.) New SS dowel pins with instructions for machining 4.) All high grade metric hardware 5.) All holes are now heli coiled 6.) Tumbled and Anodized 7.) Strong shifter relocater I still have 8 spots left on the list for the current run...listed in the group buy: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=151039 Here is a high res picture of my adapter: http://gallery.voodoo-people.com/album926/IMG_3285?full=1 The only thing that I would change is making a 360 degree unit with a crank spacer so no machining is required. However cost would go up a good bit and I have yet to have a complaint about my adapters. I am planning to start work on a Z33 6 sped no machine adapter in the near future. I have a block and a trans I just gotta get to measuring. I don't think that's the best alternative after having looked at everything... In my opinion, removing material from the bellhousing is the best option. To refine the kit completely I would recommend the following: 1. A refined Tranny mount 2. A shorter shifter mount to better align the shifter in the hole (Austin Has this done) 3. A solution which resolves the really lousy shifter shaft pressed Nissan bushing (Austin has come up with a neat solution to weld the 2 pieces together to solve the location but the Nissan bushings bug me) 4. A cover for the starter section Regarding number 3 - I am still not a fan of the U-Joint/needle bearing arrangement that Nissan used for the shifter shaft. I have a machine shop making a shortened version with a bushing and C-Clip arrangement which should be a nice elegant solution. I will probably make a few of these available once they are tested - I will post pics when I get the prototype complete. Between all of us hybridzer's we'll get this kit refined to perfection! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 IMO, Dowel pins are the ONLY way to go. Aligning a transmission off of reamed cast holes is not good practice and will NOT work for every bellhousing unless they are indexed and machined to match the adapter. Shoulder bolts are also for location and shear loading, not really tension and compression, as a transmission adapter sees. I would send the adapter back before I used shoulder bolts....period. if it doesn't line up there is something wrong and it needs to be fixed. As for the starter hole, if you use a gear reduction 280zx starter you harderly have to notch anything out of the transmission and you have a very small opening that would be easy to cover. As for the machined bellhousing vs. 1 pc. I dont think that there is anything wrong with the current adapter and machining the bellhousing however for most people not having to machine the bellhousing would make things ALOT easier for many people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj280z Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 We'll have to agree to disagree and I REALLY disagree otherwise I would not perpetuate the dowl pin discussion. Additionally, I have discussed this with 3 separate extremely competent and educated mechanical engineers who also agree that the reeming and shoulder bolts are just as good sent from my mobile device - please excuse any typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 You need to find some new engineer friends (perhaps make me one ) or maybe they need some more details to make an educated decision. I will restate what I said before..... The cast holes on the stock bellhousing are not machined nor do they have any type of tolerance with respect to a pattern or themselves. The cast holes are there to allow the bolts to provide a clamping force...there will be excess 'play' by design due to casting variances. The factory dowel pin holes are the only features that are machined precisely and are the sole features that align the bellhousing. They also take any shear loading that may possibly exist. This is NOT my opinion, this is the way it is. If you ream a factory hole you are left with a reamed hole with the exact same tolerance as the cast holes all you did was change the diameter. Now if you were to know the bolt pattern (located by the main bearing center line) and you REMACHINED the bolt holes to accept shoulder bolts...then yes they would be a feasible alternative.....Im guesing this is what your machinist did. However this is a ton of work and totally impractical when a dowel pin will suffice. Additionally as I stated before a shoulder bolt is not ment to be used in that fashion. You're free to disagree, if you think cast tolerances are good enough for your adapter then go for it...I just wouldn't recommend it to others. Ill leave it at that. You will not have any of these issues with my adapter they are machined right and have SS dowel pins that 'perfectly' align the bellhousing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj280z Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Dude - I already said we'll have to agree to disagree... Multiple opinions are encouraged on this website - I happen to be one of the folks on this forum that pride myself on doing my homework, adding value and not posting unless I can ADD something - as I have and have also done VERY educated research... I could rebutt MANY of your comments but also don't want to get into a pissing match with you... The shoulder bolts and reaming are fine and I am NOT pleased by your comments that the machinists with whom I am consulting with are foolish - quite the contrary they have read your input and opinions and have voiced concern over your theories as well... As a result, I'd kindly ask that this dowl pin versus reeming be left to plain old experience and will be proven in the field in actual use... end of topic (at least as far as I'm concerned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 and will be proven in the field in actual use... end of topic Ken I honestly could care less what you do with you car, as it is yours. But this is the root of the problem and why I even responded in the first place. Just because it works for you does not mean that it will work for everybody. I fear that if somebody has the same issue with a mazworxs adapter and they replicate what you have done they will ruin a bellhousing..or worse a transmission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 [engineer hat] I'm not going to get too involved in the technical discussion, other than to say that shoulder bolts are not intended to carry cyclic loads axially. (ie: in tension/compression) If you use a large enough bolt, the load path doesn't really matter though...[/engineer hat] [moderator hat] I think you've both said your bits about the issues at hand, the last few posts seem to offer up very little in new information, so unless there is something new to report, enough bickering. [/moderator hat] I really need to get another head so I can wear both hats at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlerMonkey Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I have 240hoke's adapter and it's so sweet I just display it with the box open showing the sweet hardware it came with. I haven't been able to break my 3n71b yet so mine just sits but I will someday detail doing this to a pathfinder shorty tranny that already has the starter in the proper location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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