mom'sZ Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 I converted an automatic to 5 speed in my 77 280Z. Clutch master and slave are brand new. New stock clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing were installed. The car will go into gear, but when you let out the clutch, you hear a rubbing noise, a light tinny Bbbbrrrrrrrrrr. And the car will not pull it's own weight. It moves a little but is slipping real bad. What did I do wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Man, thats got to be a disapointment... my thoughts are, either the clutch (maybe the T/O bearing sleve is the wrong thickness) or the trans is toast. Do you have any play/ slack in the clutch pedel? or is it tight all the way? Are you sure the trans is good? Not implieing either are the prob., just a starting place to look... Good luck!! I'm sure other more knowledgeable folks will chime in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preith Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 My first thought was the sleeve thickness, or length as well. I'd try removing the slave and starting the car in gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Yeah, this sounds like wrong sleeve thickness to me. Here's a good webpage for that: http://www.zparts.com/zptech/articles/trans_swap%20parts/4tobear_specs1.html Also I know the auto has a spacer for the flexplate. I don't know how thick it is, as I've never converted auto to manual, but if it is possible to put the flywheel on top of the spacer, that would give you the same effect as having a spacer that was too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spotfitz Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=8709&cat=500&ppuser=7958 Thats my opinion. Edit:John beat me to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mario_82_ZXT Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 It's so hard to install the flywheel with the auto tranny spacer though... Was the flywheel resurfaced? It might be insanely glazed (probably is now...) causing the slip. Mario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleaf Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 It sounds like you left the spacer on the end of the crank. lol I acctually did it a long time ago. Also you didn't say, but make sure you also install a pilot bushing/bearing. What size clutch/flywheel are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom'sZ Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 I removed the crank spacer for the auto. Actually the pilot bearing will not install if you don't remove the spacer first. And I installed a new pilot bushing. I remember reading a thread about the sleeve thickness a while back. That's what I think is wrong. The fork and throw out bearing sleeve are from this tranny. I will read the threads you linked... thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 are the PP bolts torqued to spec? you can run the car with NO hydraulic lines or cylinders in theory and drive the car and have NO slipping.. unless the throwout collar is TOO LONG .. the throwout bearing is constantly pushing on the pressure plate, which disengages the clutch slightly... what year car do you drive, what transmission setup did you get and from what year car ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom'sZ Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 Pressure plate is torqued to spec. My car is a 77 280Z, the tranny is a 5 speed out of 280. I don't remember what year they said it was from, but it was supposed to be a 280, I think 77 or 78. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 How does the pedal feel as you press it in? When you let out the clutch pedal, does it grab at the bottom, or wait till its almost all the way up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom'sZ Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 The clutch feels perfectly normal. Start the car in neutral, everything sounds fine, push in the clutch pedal, no sound, shift the car into gear, still no sound, then begin to let the clutch out and where you would expect it to start to engage (about half way up from fully depressed) you hear this horrible rubbing noise. Push the clutch pedal back in and it stops, let it out all the way and the sound gets worse, the clutch slips, the car moves a little like it's trying and the motor spins free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Have you tried it in different gears? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom'sZ Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 Yes I have, all the gears and reverse. It's a clutch issue, I'm almost certain. Thanks for all your help, everyone. I'm home now so I'm going to try preith's suggestion of removing the slave. (good idea, why didn't I think of it last night) And then I guess it's 5 speed bench press time. Will let you know what I find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom'sZ Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 I removed the slave cylinder and as the bolts came out, the fork pushed the slave back, like there was still pressure on the fork. Then I started the car in gear (up on stands) and no noise. So I looked and the wheel is spinning, I had to step on the brake pretty hard to stall the engine out, the clutch seems to hold well with the slave removed and no noise. I don't think I could reinstall the slave if I wanted to, is this normal? Even pressing the piston all the way back into the slave I still need about a quarter inch to line up the bolts. So then I got to wondering if I had enough free play. I reread the FSM and realized it takes 1 - 3 mm at the clevis, but also 7 - 12 mm master free play. So I backed the rod out until it fell out the back of the clevis. But I still can't remount the slave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Looks like it time to change out the T/O collar to a thinner one. One last ditch effort would be to shorten the slave rod..... but if while the slave is off, and you grab the clutch T/O fork, and can't move it for and aft at all (zerro play) then your T/O bearing is allways in contact with the PP (not good) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom'sZ Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 drum roll please.... IT WAS THE WRONG CLUTCH!!!! sorry for shouting. The clutch plate is the wrong one for this pressure plate or the pressure plate is the wrong one for this clutch. The rivets that secure the spring plate on the clutch hit the rivets that secure the spring plates in the PP. The new pressure plate is thicker by 1/4 - 1/2" then the one that came with the tranny. And the springs inside the pressure plate are different. The clutch plate looks a little different, 4 springs instead of 6, but dimensionally it looks like it might be the same. They were both sourced from Courtesy. I feel better now, I thought I had made a dumb mistake. Anybody know what I got here? Anyhow, I'm thinking about putting the clutch that came with the tranny in, it doesn't look that bad. Thanks everyone for the help Oh here's the part numbers off the box pressure plate 30210-N3100 clutch 30100-N4225 I'm on battery power out in the garage so I can't cross them with the part CD tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 wow.. never saw that one coming! crazy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom'sZ Posted August 23, 2006 Author Share Posted August 23, 2006 I called Courtesy Nissan today and they are sending me another pressure plate and UPS pickup order for the old one. The guy said there were two pressure plates, one is 73 to present and the other is 74 to present. They have different part numbers. Oddly, he never asked if it was a 4 speed or 5 speed. Do all L-2.8s use the same clutch? Is this where the difference in throw out bearing collar heights comes from? Is there any information about how to identify transmissions? Do they have casting numbers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 umm.. 240z's 260's and 280z's and 280zx's use the SAME clutch.. as long as its a 225mm flywheel... the 2+2 260z 280z and the 280zx 2+2 and the 280zx TURBO used a 240mm flywheel so the clutch and pressure plate is different as for the throwout bearing collar.. same thing.. the 2+2 and turbo requires a shorter collar.. the standard 225mm uses the same longer collar Comparison photo showing two Nissan clutch fork types used on 1970-1983 Z & ZX car models with stock Type A and Type B transmissions, with the exception of the ZX turbo models. Each type of fork was matched to a unique design of slave cylinder and push rod. Upper fork used a non adjustable design and lower used a threaded, adjustable push rod with threaded adjuster end and lock nut. symbol indicates attachment point for external return spring used with adjustable type of slave cylinder OK, so what components to use? There is more to it than I can write now, but John Vanek, of the Z Doctor, told me that the best guideline for coupes (not 2+2 cars) is to purchase all matched Nissan clutch components (pressure plate & disk) for either a 4 or 5 speed and use the original T/O collar, bearing, fork, slave that originally came with the 4 or 5 speed you are swapping in. The curse begins when you mix up the hdwe from 2 different types of trannies you have kicking around your garage. Hopefully, after I get my article and comparison photos up with attached measurements, Z owners will be able to use it to figure out what hwde in hand originally fit what? Since I first published my first collar comparison photo I have received several interesting comments from the experience of others that relates to a few lesser known swap issues, such as the fork pivot ball height adjustment and aftermarket T/O bearing variable specs and master cylinder bore size, that also may lead to clutch problems down the road. I'll try to include their advice into the article as time goes on. If any of you wish to send me comments or suggestions as to what other topics and specs to include, feel free to do so. ALL pcitrues and text are courtesy of http://www.zparts.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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