454 Chevy vs. 500 Caddy

[Guest Mike]

all you need is a alternator bracket and a tensioner from a f-body. Our cars dont have power steering and I doubt your gonna run A/C. Oil pan will be a must Im pretty sure though. Here is a pic of mine so you get an idea Mike.............

 

the air cleaner wont be on there for long' date=' just keeping crap outta my motor. Anyway both orange pieces on the front is all you need.

[/quote']

 

Wanna sell yours?

[Michael]

The reason to do a BBC swap is neither for bragging rights nor for horsepower potential - though neither, to some extent, can be entirely discounted . The reason is the SAME reason that one would have any particular engine preference; and that is, that you are already familiar with the engine!

 

If you know Buick nailheads, do the Buick swap. If you know Lexus V8’s, do the Lexus swap. The main headache of hotrod auto mechanics is NOT the swap itself, but the care and feeding of a high performance engine! Making mounts, routing the exhaust, fitting the transmission shifter and hooking up the driveshaft are hobby-craft challenges that some patience and creativity will cure.

 

But right now I’ve got a $7000 engine with beautiful top-end parts, which keeps fouling plugs because of some irascible ailment in the ignition system. This has nothing to do with swapping engines, and everything to do with basic familiarity with the specific engine in question. If you grew up working on Chevelles with your dad, and can tune the old 396 with a screwdriver, a pair of pliers and a shop rag, by all means do the big block swap. The LS1 might be lighter and more refined, but who cares - if it is outside of the scope of your familiarity, it will descend into a rancid pit of frustrations. But if you grew up tuning EFI and know your way around handheld code readers, but haven’t seen a carburetor other than on lawn mowers and model airplanes, why bother with the Mark IV BBC? Don’t worry about the custom engine mounts for the LS1. They can’t be hard to build. But why that silly $7000 engine is fouling plugs after 10 minutes at idle - now there’s a good half dozen mechanics (no exaggeration!) stumped, as of this writing. And this problem would have been identical in a 60’s Impala with a numbers-matching BBC.

 

So, bottom line: do the BBC swap because you know the BBC. But if you know another engine better, swap that one.

 

And you're right - there are no shortcuts. Except for maybe buying a brand-new Z06.

[Lason]

The reason to do a BBC swap is neither for bragging rights nor for horsepower potential - though neither' date=' to some extent, can be entirely discounted . The reason is the SAME reason that one would have any particular engine preference; and that is, that you are already familiar with the engine!

 

If you know Buick nailheads, do the Buick swap. If you know Lexus V8’s, do the Lexus swap. The main headache of hotrod auto mechanics is NOT the swap itself, but the care and feeding of a high performance engine! Making mounts, routing the exhaust, fitting the transmission shifter and hooking up the driveshaft are hobby-craft challenges that some patience and creativity will cure.

 

But right now I’ve got a $7000 engine with beautiful top-end parts, which keeps fouling plugs because of some irascible ailment in the ignition system. This has nothing to do with swapping engines, and everything to do with basic familiarity with the specific engine in question. If you grew up working on Chevelles with your dad, and can tune the old 396 with a screwdriver, a pair of pliers and a shop rag, by all means do the big block swap. The LS1 might be lighter and more refined, but who cares - if it is outside of the scope of your familiarity, it will descend into a rancid pit of frustrations. But if you grew up tuning EFI and know your way around handheld code readers, but haven’t seen a carburetor other than on lawn mowers and model airplanes, why bother with the Mark IV BBC? Don’t worry about the custom engine mounts for the LS1. They can’t be hard to build. But why that silly $7000 engine is fouling plugs after 10 minutes at idle - now there’s a good half dozen mechanics (no exaggeration!) stumped, as of this writing. And this problem would have been identical in a 60’s Impala with a numbers-matching BBC.

 

So, bottom line: do the BBC swap because you know the BBC. But if you know another engine better, swap that one.

 

And you're right - there are no shortcuts. Except for maybe buying a brand-new Z06.[/quote']

 

While I do agree with you, there are other things to think about. Im extremely familiar with small block fords as well as smal block chevy's. I have also messed with a few big block chevys as well and had a LS1 F-body for a while. When I was considering motors for my car I was looking for a fun street car as well as something I could further my knowledge of cars with. i considered a buick turbo 6,a TT Supra motor and even a RB26DETT even though I have never approached any of those engines with a tool before (never even seen a RB motor). I did my research and weighed the pros/cons of each as they applied to my final goal of a fun street car that would turn heads at the drag strip.

 

If you stick to what you know you will excel at it but you wont ever expand your horizons, hence the people who bash other makes because of ignorance.

 

So like I said, I agree with you but at the same time I disagree, just my $.02

[Pop N Wood]

all you need is a alternator bracket and a tensioner from a f-body. Our cars dont have power steering and I doubt your gonna run A/C. Oil pan will be a must Im pretty sure though. Here is a pic of mine so you get an idea Mike.............

 

the air cleaner wont be on there for long' date=' just keeping crap outta my motor. Anyway both orange pieces on the front is all you need.

[img']http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a267/Lason/240Z%20Conversion/126-2640_IMG.jpg[/img]

 

I know the F body belt is 3/4 of an inch farther from the block than the vette stuff because I had to solve that problem when I tried to put an F body alternator bracket on my LS2. But in researching alternator placement I read that the truck belt runs even farther out than the F body belt. Is that a truck WP and crank pulley on that engine? Just want to know.

 

Also the carb is one way around the tall truck FI intake. I thought someone once posted the truck intake will not clear a Z hood.

 

BTW, Lason, what carb and jets are you running? I would love to ball park my carb set up before I try to start my engine.

[Lason]

I know the F body belt is 3/4 of an inch farther from the block than the vette stuff because I had to solve that problem when I tried to put an F body alternator bracket on my LS2. But in researching alternator placement I read that the truck belt runs even farther out than the F body belt. Is that a truck WP and crank pulley on that engine? Just want to know.

 

Also the carb is one way around the tall truck FI intake. I thought someone once posted the truck intake will not clear a Z hood.

 

BTW' date=' Lason, what carb and jets are you running? I would love to ball park my carb set up before I try to start my engine.[/quote']

 

you know what, your right. I didnt even think about the crank and waterpump pulley. There MIGHT be a problem there too Mike. No my motor is straight out of a F-body. The car intake cleared with plenty to spare but my current setup will require a cowl hood. I havent had it in the car with the carb'd intake yet.

 

As far as jetting I have no idea. I will probably end up with a new carb when Im done. Right now I have a 750 that came off my last hotrod. Its a proform body with holley parts. I was still tuning it when I pulled it off so its not spot on just yet. I had a real dead spot with the proform body that Im blaming on a bad piece. The bores dont line perectly up with the holley baseplate. A problem others have had as well. I may try to use it with a billet baseplate and metering blocks and new bowls but I doubt it. Ill probably throw a HP series double pumper on it when I get there.

[Guest Mike]

The reason to do a BBC swap is neither for bragging rights nor for horsepower potential - though neither' date=' to some extent, can be entirely discounted . The reason is the SAME reason that one would have any particular engine preference; and that is, that you are already familiar with the engine!

 

If you know Buick nailheads, do the Buick swap. If you know Lexus V8’s, do the Lexus swap. The main headache of hotrod auto mechanics is NOT the swap itself, but the care and feeding of a high performance engine! Making mounts, routing the exhaust, fitting the transmission shifter and hooking up the driveshaft are hobby-craft challenges that some patience and creativity will cure.

 

But right now I’ve got a $7000 engine with beautiful top-end parts, which keeps fouling plugs because of some irascible ailment in the ignition system. This has nothing to do with swapping engines, and everything to do with basic familiarity with the specific engine in question. If you grew up working on Chevelles with your dad, and can tune the old 396 with a screwdriver, a pair of pliers and a shop rag, by all means do the big block swap. The LS1 might be lighter and more refined, but who cares - if it is outside of the scope of your familiarity, it will descend into a rancid pit of frustrations. But if you grew up tuning EFI and know your way around handheld code readers, but haven’t seen a carburetor other than on lawn mowers and model airplanes, why bother with the Mark IV BBC? Don’t worry about the custom engine mounts for the LS1. They can’t be hard to build. But why that silly $7000 engine is fouling plugs after 10 minutes at idle - now there’s a good half dozen mechanics (no exaggeration!) stumped, as of this writing. And this problem would have been identical in a 60’s Impala with a numbers-matching BBC.

 

So, bottom line: do the BBC swap because you know the BBC. But if you know another engine better, swap that one.

 

And you're right - there are no shortcuts. Except for maybe buying a brand-new Z06.[/quote']

 

You've brought up a very valid point. I guess a SBC is the easiest solution for me since it's closer to my real-world experiences. It's definitely something to consider.

 

It's been a gazillion years since I've fiddled with a performance car. I'm more familiar with old Pontiac 400's and 455's... oh and an Austin L6 in my beloved Austin Healey 3000. Alas... all sold long ago.

[Cable]

“Project_BBZ†recently finished a bolt-in of a BBC using JTR-type mounts. Somehow he managed to installed block-hugger headers without having to modify the frame rails or relocating the steering shaft - both very impressive achievements.

 

 

He did?! Please point me to the thread if it exists.

 

Here you go:

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=98860

 

Man that guy is nuts!! Oh wait, that's me!!

 

More pics and stuff in the link in my sig.

 

Michael is correct though, a BBC swap into a Z is NOT a first timer swap. Especially if you do not know your way around a BBC blindfolded. I've been messing around with both SBC & BBC since age 5 (seriously, dad & grandpa raced a 427 Nova) and I still don't know it all. I like both motors, but BBC are my bread & butter.

 

 

Oh, not to step on Corzette's toes, but it is possible to run a stock hood with a BBC. I placed my BBC low enough that if I had run a reg Performer RPM instead of the RPM Air-Gap I could of used the stock hood and a 3" air cleaner element. I considered buying another stock hood and a reg RPM intake, but this car shakes the ground regardless, so the sleeper style wouldn't work anyway.

 

Besides, I am in the early stages of building at least a 496 stroker or 540+ inch BBC. Either one will have w/AFR heads, solid roller cam, forged pistons/crankshaft, H-Bean rods, and build to take some squeeze (on tap if needed). My goal is to have a streetable, pump gas, low 9's Z on the stock IRS (R230).

 

Anyway, I'll be using a Vic Jr intake with that motor anyway and would need the cowl hood to fit.

 

If you have anymore questions, just ask.

[rytherwr]

Mike...2 items of interest....1. I have a pump gas 600 hp 454 SBC in my 71 240Z with JTR mounts. With the carburated manifold, I had to use a dropped air cleaner and 3 inch filter to clear the hood. I installed fuel injection and it came with a Victor Jr and it clears very well, even with a 5 inch filter. Since that time, I had my World products intake modifed for fuel injection and had to go to a cowl induction hood because the manifold is so tall. Your mounting style and induction configuration will play a huge roll in what style hood you can get away with. 2. there are a quite a number of built 200r4 transmissions behind 3500 lb 700 hp/600 lbft turbo Buicks that would seem to negate your feelings about that particular transmission.

 

Wayne

[Scottie-GNZ]

there are a quite a number of built 200r4 transmissions behind 3500 lb 700 hp/600 lbft turbo Buicks that would seem to negate your feelings about that particular transmission.

 

Wayne

True. Just make sure you ask the tranny builder not to stick it in too far.

[rytherwr]

How true, Scottie....Art Carr gets around $3K for a competition 200R4 without torque converter.....

 

Wayne