Administrators RTz Posted October 16, 2006 Administrators Share Posted October 16, 2006 Nice neat setup, what coils are they? 2000 Chev. Suburban. All sources I've been able to dig up suggest that they are electrically the same as LS1 coils. Difference being the location of the wires... These have the HT and LT leads opposite each other while the LS1's have them on the same side of the coil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted October 16, 2006 Administrators Share Posted October 16, 2006 im looking into megajolt. i no that there r plenty of fords sitting in teh boneyard to get the packs from. so what would i need to steal off of a ford v6 if i got the megajolt unit? VR sensor, trigger wheel, EDIS module, coil-packs, and pigtails. PM BRAAP... I think he has an extra system for sale. Just a suggestion... It would be far easier to read your posts with some effort towards capitalization/spelling/punctuation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjc5500 Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 yea, i was already at school. sry. I have 0 period and it sucks. ill pm him. i just dont even think about grammer. However, I will try to start using it post haste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted October 17, 2006 Administrators Share Posted October 17, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted October 17, 2006 Administrators Share Posted October 17, 2006 Megajolt is essentially just the “Ignition only†version of Mega Squirt. We have looked into the Megajolt for a few customers wanting to retain their Triplecarbs and SU carbs but also wanting the DIS just like we have on our L-28 with Mega Squirt n spark extra with the Ford EDIS system. Parts needed.. From a V-6 Ford Explorer or Windstar, you will need the coil pack and EDIS-6 module, (EDIS-6 is for 6 cylinder engines.). You will also need a 36-1 crank trigger wheel and its matching VR sensor. I used the 36-1 wheel and a matching VR sensor from a 4 cylinder Ford Escort. Our set up is currently running with complete control of the ignition timing. For the budget minded Z owner wanting an ignition upgrade, Megajolt is great, (or Mega squirt if you want full coupled fuel control as well). Be fore warned that Mega Squirt will require LOTS of patience in getting everything to work and communicate properly. Follow ALL instructions and don’t try to cut any corners even if you think you can get away with it, such as using cheap or even mid quality spark plug wires. Here are some detailed threads regarding The FORD EDIS ignition when used on the Datsun L-6…. EDIS thread… http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=103781 The EDIS Test bench with some GREAT operational EDIS pics…. http://www.msextra.com/viewtopic.php?t=14920 DIS ignition… http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=113165 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjc5500 Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 I think I have the basic idea of how it works, and what i have to get. The only part that im confused about is the crank wheel. what has to be done to the stock crankwheel on a 73 240 w/ ac? Will i still be able to use my ac? or do i have to eliminate it. Also, what does the EDIS moduel(sp) look like? i know what the coil pack looks like, but not the EDIS mod. i also forgot to ask, would i be able to cut a 36-1 wheel out of some thick sheet metal and mount it to the front of the crank pulley? In the shop at my school, we have a plasma cam. Its some computer controled plasma cutter, coudl i cut one out w/ this? If so, what r the dimensions of it? and woudl i be able to weld it(bolt if i have to) to the front of the crank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted October 18, 2006 Administrators Share Posted October 18, 2006 Well, I’ll post a couple pics here of the parts and what they look like. As for your EDIS specific questions, I have posted in great length a lot of detailed technical info regarding the EDIS ignition system which I linked above and I really don’t want to retype it. Please go read these 2 threads linked below. Please read the entire threads and that will answer many of your questions and other questions that you haven’t thought of yet, especially your questions pertaining to making your own 36-1 wheel. There is info regarding alternative coil packs, custom 36-1 crank wheels, O scope traces, with some great pictures. etc. The EDIS Test bench that Ron Tyler and Myself built and operate. LOTS of good EDIS technical info and awesome pics as well.… http://www.msextra.com/viewtopic.php?t=14920 Z car specific EDIS info. Again lots of great info…. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=103781 Here are all the EDIS parts needed for a 6 cylinder, EDIS 6 module and Coil pack from a 4.0L Ford Explorer , the 36-1 crank trigger wheel and its matching VR sensor are form a Ford Escort. Here are the EDIS-8 goodies from a Ford Crown Vic. Here is an old Datsun 280 Z damper before, during, and after, being modified to accept the Ford Escort 36-1 wheel… This was for mock up, then I machined a brand new damper for the race car which is pictured below these… This is the brand new Nissan pulley that is currently on our Race car. Here is our EDIS test bench, (“our” being Ron Tyler and myself), in operation testing an EDIS-8 system, (we clipped the ground electrodes from some old spark plugs which allowed us to see the sparks more clearly and also delivered the cool spark dance around the perimeter). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjc5500 Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 I think im gonna take a trip down to pick n pull this or next weekend and look for the parts. the 36-1 wheel is from a focus right? Also, with some modding, will a focus crank wheel work on a 240? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted October 18, 2006 Administrators Share Posted October 18, 2006 The 36-1 pictured above is from a mid to late 90’s Ford ESCORT, not a Focus! I can’t say for sure, but I think the Focus used a different ignition system, but it doesn’t hurt to look just incase… Good luck, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjc5500 Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 I will prolly get the one from the escort then for sure. But the escort one, will it fit w/ modding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 2000 Chev. Suburban. All sources I've been able to dig up suggest that they are electrically the same as LS1 coils. Difference being the location of the wires... These have the HT and LT leads opposite each other while the LS1's have them on the same side of the coil. How are they for a CDI system? My engine is a VG30DET so no distributor, probably will use a M&W six channel module, see http://www.mwignitions.com/cdi2.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Hear are a couple of threads to read about EDIS using a Megasquirt: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=113165 http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=112161 http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=103781 DIS is certainly good for blown applications where timing accuracy is extremely important. If you are converting to stand alone EFI, implementing DIS is not that much more work if the ECU supports it. If you are running carbs, adding DIS is a lot of work for little to no gain in performance, unless you are running a very high CR. In that case adding an MSD box would be much easier. For the budget minded person with good electronic skills, the Megasquirt with EDIS is a great option. For others, an aftermarket unit like a Wolf 3D (Electromotive units are overly complicated to program IMO) is a great system. For a cheap but excellent performing L6 ignition, use an 81' ZX na distributor and module, along with either a stock ZX coil, or a "high performance" coil of your choice. I ran this setup on my track car for three years, without any problems. I had a 10:1 L28 with a stock cam and no headwork in the car at the time, and it made 165WHP. Would an MSD make any more power? I don't think so. If you are running high boost pressures, or a very high CR (greater than 13:1), an MSD will definitely make a difference. In mildly modified street engines, I don't think so. I recently dynoed a Rebello 3.1L with SUs and a stock 280Z distributor. The only other mod to the ignition was a MSD Blaster II coil. This made 240WHP. Again, would an MSD box give more power? Probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted October 19, 2006 Administrators Share Posted October 19, 2006 How are they for a CDI system? My engine is a VG30DET so no distributor, probably will use a M&W six channel module, see http://www.mwignitions.com/cdi2.htm Richard, These coils have a built in ignitor. So, as far as I know, there is no way to make them work with a CDI box. Also, I'd be surprised if they were any better than the OE coils you already have. Pete, Do you know any way to make that work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 If your coils have built in igniters, the M&W CDI ignition module will destroy them. CDI ignitions have a much higher primary voltage, that yields a much higher secondary voltage than an inductive igntion system. An inductive ignition system has a 12V primary voltage. A CDI igntion can have as high as 500V on the primary. Want to see smoke? Put 500V on the input of a device that expects 5 or 12V. You also need to use the proper coil for a CDI ignition to avoid coil overheating. On the input side, these M&W CDI ignition modules can be triggered from an ECU (+5V square wave), or a distributors inductive pickup. Looks like you need to order different part numbers for each one. A CDI is a huge investment, and is really only needed in all out race applications. You also need to run solid core wires, and non-resistor plugs. If you have a nice stereo in your car, forget about listening to it any more as the CDI creates a lot of interference (EMI). Stay away from CDI unless you are building a track-only car. M&W also makes an inductive 3 channel unit (IGN010), that can be used with standard coils, and can be driven from a aftermarket ECU like the Wolf3D or a Megasquirt. Nology also has an inductive module that is much smaller, and works great: http://nology.com/module.html You could use two of these an do a COP setup. If you COP coils have igniters built in, use them as they are probably excellent OEM quality. You can save yourself a bundle too. In wasted spark applications I've use RX-7 coil packs which have the modules build in. No lack of spark runnning over 16psi of boost. Cheap from junkyards too. You can also make your own module using the VB921 coil drivers that are used in the Megasquirt. You just need to wire them up and make the whole package water and vibration proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted October 20, 2006 Administrators Share Posted October 20, 2006 Thanks Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Thanks Pete and Ron, that is really useful info, thanks again The VG30DET will have an aftermarket MoTec ECU, for around 500whp I've been told that to be sure CDI should be used. It is effing expensive but I don't want to get into a situation where the engine is dropping sparks. Do it once, do it right sort of thing. But if you have alternative opinions I'd like to hear them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjc5500 Posted October 20, 2006 Author Share Posted October 20, 2006 Thank you all. When I get the money, i will go down and get the parts. The info helps alot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 How much boost do you think you will need to make 500HP, 18psi or so? I would think that a good quality inductive ignition would do the trick. I personally know of people that have hit the 500WHP goal in a 300ZXTT running the stock ignition. What is important is using the proper plug heat range, and setting the plug gap for the coils and boost levels you are running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted October 20, 2006 Administrators Share Posted October 20, 2006 Pete beat me to it... I'm also of the opinion that 500HP is do-able on the stock ignition. Its been done many times. Do you have reason to believe they won't be up to the task or are you just covering your backside? I understand there are a lot of variables but it may take more than 18psi to get to 500. Lum is getting pretty close to 400hp at 15psi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted October 20, 2006 Administrators Share Posted October 20, 2006 gjc5500, Glad we could help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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