alexideways Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Here is my idea, I just want people's imput and ideas about it. I plan on using an A/C system to cool my air charge, I would fit the evaporator in a sealed box trough wich the turbo would blow. I know it has been done before, I think it was on an 2gen. MR2 and the post the guy stated that the air charge was colder ofter the cooler than it was when at embient temp. is that possible? I tought about this system to shorten to maximum the length of the intake piping and get instant throttle responce. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trwebb26 Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Man... I don't think an AC evaporator would cool the air fast enough to be all that useful, buy I'm no HVAC guy. The most common setup I've seen is a nitrous spray bar across the intercooler. This would give you the cool charge when you needed it - foot to the floor under full boost: http://www.holley.com/types/Intercooler_Spray_Bar_Kits.asp How does this reduce the intake piping? I would think there would be a pretty nice size pressure drop through something like you are talking about too. I probably just haven't thought through it enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexideways Posted November 12, 2006 Author Share Posted November 12, 2006 How does this reduce the intake piping? Well, istead of having the cooler in the front bumper, I would mount the rad and (a/c/intercooler) evaporator on the other side of the rad support and have the turbo blow in a pipe that would turn 90deg. right in front of the valve cover where I'd put the box with with the evap. in it then another 90deg. towards the TB, this would make a shorter intake system than with the tipical front mount intercooler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett76Zt Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 just run meth injection dude, I have regularly seen intake temps 20 degrees below ambient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexideways Posted November 12, 2006 Author Share Posted November 12, 2006 just run meth injection dude, I have regularly seen intake temps 20 degrees below ambient. That mutch!? That is interesting. And is that with meth. injec. only or on top of intercooling? Is methanol hard to come by? Where do you buy this stuff ans is it expensive? Thanks for the tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rztmartini Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 you could just do water injection and build your own setup like i might do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
510six Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I have had lower tham ambient temps with my Icewater/Air IC ,on a 109* track temp my intake air temps were 71* at idle.I agree with Garrett it would be simpler and longer lasting to just put a methanol injection system on.I plan on doing one myself using two 160lb injectors in the intake track, lowering intake temps and adding octain can never hurt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 If you were going to do that, think about an air/water system. That will get the core doing the air cooling as close as possible to the turbo/TB are. You could then use evaporator coils to cool either the radiator portion OR the intercooler portion or both, and possibly utilize other methods to cool also - like NOx, CO2 or dry ice. You would have the ability of having a second radiator to use for the dry ice mounted wherever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neorazz Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 just take you headlight sprayers and aim them at your intercooler then you can cool your air and you don't have to buy any extra parts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 just take you headlight sprayers and aim them at your intercooler then you can cool your air and you don't have to buy any extra parts SMART! You might have to buy a new car or a coffin when the water from that headlight sprayer drips on the road at 120mph. Using the a/c in conjunction with an I/C is not new but has not taken off because of the complexity and expense. Meth inj, when done right, really works folks. Just look at what Garrett's setup is doing. I am pushing 600rwhp, 27psi boost on pump gas with hyper pistons and intake temps in the 70-80* range going thru the traps in the heat of Orlando. Today, quality I/Cs have become so cheap, you can now afford to have a good I/C and a good meth inj system for an unbeatable combo to make lots of power safely without the expense of $10/gal race gas. High quality meth, like the one from VP, is about $3.30/gal and I inject about 12+ozs/pass for 600rwhp. Do the math and you see the cost benefits. A lot of folks prefer a DIY approach, and nothing wrong with that but it cannot match a quality progressively controlled system that injects only what the engine is demanding. The bottom line is that meth/alky inj is now a real alternative for something like what you are considering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexideways Posted November 17, 2006 Author Share Posted November 17, 2006 just take you headlight sprayers and aim them at your intercooler then you can cool your air and you don't have to buy any extra parts Since when does a 73Z have headlight sprayers? ...The bottom line is that meth/alky inj is now a real alternative for something like what you are considering. Thanks for all the answers guys. Scottie-GNZ: do you think that meth. injec. is a viable option for a street driven car? As I'm not looking at drag racing at all, maybe a few runs to see what the car can do but, I'm more about track days and canyon carving so, would it be effective over a longer period of time? Is there any other stuff that would do the job and be less expensive per gallon? I know that there's the WATER injec. option but, is it efficient enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neorazz Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Since when does a 73Z have headlight sprayers? i knew that was going to come back and bite me i know that that was a stock option on the subaru 2002 wrx sti it had a button to spray your intercooler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexideways Posted November 17, 2006 Author Share Posted November 17, 2006 i knew that was going to come back and bite me i know that that was a stock option on the subaru 2002 wrx sti it had a button to spray your intercooler So, it was more of a joke than a serious statement? I feel releaved now, you kinda scared me for a moment there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rztmartini Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 i am also seriously considering doing a water or meth injection, but what are the makor differences btwn the two? will you gain more from straight meth injection vs H2O horsepower wise or will it just allow you to run more boost (which i know will incrase horsepower lol)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 meth evaporates at a lower temperature than water will so it can get the charge cooler. Plus it has a high octane rating so it burns out better (just my thinking)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 Dont equate the price of meth to the price of gas because you do not use it the same way. You only need to inject meth when the engine demands it. In my case, I start injecting at 6psi. If I drive the car for a week and never go over 6psi, it does not use a drop. However, if you are always dogging the car and always in boost, you are going to use it a lot. As for the difference between water and meth inj, it can be summed up simply. Water has a high specific heat rating meaning it can absorb a lot of heat while only slowly increasing in temperature. Methanol is a fast acting cooling agent that will also reduce temperature like water. However, water is water and does not burn while meth is a secondary fuel with a very high octane rating, but there is more to meth than just the octance rating. Hopefully this will not bore you but will explain how it really works and why it works so well. Any fuel put into the engine needs heat to convert it into a vapor. Meth has 3.5 times more BTU/lb than gasoline and that means it requires a lot of heat to turn it into vapor. That heat is drawn from the inlet tract, piston crown, combustion chamber and valves resulting cooler internal engine parts. The rest you can figure out....more octane and cooler internal engine parts means more power. If you are not into racing and just want a cooler intake charge, a water/meth or alky mix would work well for you. BTW, you think meth is expensive? Look at the price of denaured alky next time you go into Home Depot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexideways Posted November 18, 2006 Author Share Posted November 18, 2006 Wow, thanks, that was cristal clear and NOT boring at all. You have any good sites that you'd recomend on the subject? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rztmartini Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 i asked this question before and didnt get an answer, maybe its such a dumb question ppl didnt want to bother... will isopropyl (sp?) or rubbing alcohol work similar to methanol? i have access to DRUMS of the stuff so that would be awesome if it would work as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spork Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 I run a kit from Devils Own. http://www.alcohol-injection.com/ I'm using a progressive kit similar to what scottie is talking about (just a different brand). And I am running larger quantities than most are since I'm also using the meth for extra fuel. There are plenty of people that make kits, do your research on which ones are good. Price will vary and doesn't always affect quality since most of these kits are made by small companies. If you're interested, I'm a dealer for Devils own and can get you a pretty decent price if you decide to go that route. After you go to meth injection on your car...you'll be slapping yourself asking why you hadn't done it earlier. Works great for a street or track car. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 I plan on running my carbs slightly on the lean side for the MPG factor for daily driving and inject the alcohol fuel:air ratio at WOT for optimal power while spraying N2O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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