pparaska Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Guys, I've looked around a bit in the forum and can't find anything really suitable for an FAQ submition to the FAQ forum. Maybe I just missed something. Has anyone done a good FAQ writeup (see some of the ones in the FAQ forum for an example, like the L6 turbo swap one, etc.) to do the SBF into a Z? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoeightnine Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 A FAQ on this subject would be in order. When I first came here, thats what I was looking for. Nothing but chevy stuff. The best advise that I was given was by JTR themselfs. It turned out to be pretty decent advise so far. Use the Asil engine mount and JTR extras. so far it has worked out for me but Im not completly finished though. I have gained alot from the people that have done it before me but the info is scattered and takes a bit of harvesting to get together. The only thing I have left is to mate the JTR diff adapter, chevy shaft to ford end at the tranny. I dont see a problem with it. Just haven finished yet. All I can say is dont read the hitman47 post (chad). It took me nearly an hour to read and ends in the toilet. Good intentions, just went down. After that it's been a bit at a time thing. Who's the guru? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Sounds like a project the Ford guys need to submit..... Oh, that's me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoeightnine Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Yes Terry. A submission would be nice. Thing is that, there have been so relatively few successful Ford swaps documented that not only is the info scattered but the Ford crowd has yet to settle into a common install. Like Terry which (correct me if I am wrong) uses forward and aft engine plates to mount his engine where others use a cross member. Drive train wise there is the adapter flange or the jtr diff yoke and others. Lacking an industry "kit" for Ford engines has stalled it's progression. I can understand why some one would give up and "drop a chebby tree fitty in er". But in reality there is not much difference in the builds. It can be as simple as stated before. Snatch the alsil cross member and pick up the rest of the JTR kit, hit the Hybrid Z search button, cuss alot, and "get er done". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 When I finish I intend to make a thread on it detailing what I used and such. My build uses Alsil's mount but it is hacked up and reshaped a bit. Also my steering shaft is being relocated. We shall see. I'd love to read terry's write up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jim Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Prior to swapping a 302 into my 240Z I used the search function and found very little hard info on small block Ford swaps.Lot's of good info on other stuff though. The car's been to the track 4 times now and made 14 passes total without any parts falling off(not counting losing a freeze plug first pass). Going to run the car again tonight at Irwindale. Last time out it ran a 7.80/86.5MPH in the 1/8 (about 12.20 1/4). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Perhaps we could start with basic clearance issues. 1) Where the oil pan sits in regards to the crossmember, and the corresponding distance between the rear of the block, and the firewall 2) The position of the damper over the rack 3) Header clearance at the firewall and steering rod, and the specific header used (shorties seem to be pretty popular, and probably a good starting point) 4) The driveshaft adapter flange could be easily machined and could be purchased or supplied by a volunteer (I wouldn't mind pricing one) Probably the most needed piece or information is a well thought out engine mounting system that could have accurate dimensions provided so that it could be copied or produced for others, without any variations between one or the other. Has there been ANY issues with Asil's (? spelling) mount? If not then this would be a prime starting point. Twoeightnine was correct in that my application is so far removed from a "popular" application (engine plates, home-made crossmember, extended wheel base, etc) that It has little application or usefulness in this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Terry, I think it is "Alsil" which is short for Al Silvera. He shouldn't mind me posting his name here since he's a rock musician trying to get famous Terry, I love your "site" and the pictures of your car with all the information and descriptions of what you have done. What would be cool, but a lot of work for you, would be to make a build thread for yourself and put some of the important pictures on their yourself. The only other downside to doing this is that you'll get inundated with email and that it perhaps requires more fabrication (dare I say EXPERT fabrication) than the average swapper can do without serious skills. You, Pete, JohnC and a few others are the only ones I think of to pull of such a build. Most of us are shade tree Chevy JTR V8 swappers. BTW, we are discussing a build forum among the admin... Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 It would be cool if I had put the Z's engine bay into SolidWorks before I put the engine in, then we could all use it on Hybridz. Different groups could imput different engines and that would have made my life alot easier. I might try this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buZy Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 It would be cool if I had put the Z's engine bay into SolidWorks before I put the engine in, then we could all use it on Hybridz. Different groups could imput different engines and that would have made my life alot easier. I might try this. I know and use SW. You could 3Dscan the compartment and SBF parts etc. There are many more details..... but it would be so cool if someone could pull it off. Alot of work to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoeightnine Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 When I finish I intend to make a thread on it detailing what I used and such. My build uses Alsil's mount but it is hacked up and reshaped a bit. Also my steering shaft is being relocated. We shall see. I'd love to read terry's write up! In what way is it "hacked up" a bit? I have been keeping track of any issues during the build and shall document the results. Haven't posted much yet, as what I have gone thru would be a rehash of pretty much what we have all been through. I have photographed piles of wires, metal, bumpers, and scrap. A shoe box full of engine bay brackets and a sack full of rusted metal that I had to hack out of various places. You know, the usual. I can tell you that the car is finally ready to reassemble. The rout that I have chosen, and the equipment on hand is... Brand new 289 "Brock" motor with the Performer RPM package, all aluminum. Alsil mout (the prelim fitment passed so far). Summit shorty headers. Yes I dumped the Sandersons. Brand new T-5 tranny. JTR tranny mount and differintial yoke. Drive shaft has not been fabricated but we are close. And Modern Motorsports coil over kit (thanks Ross they are purdy). I havent purchased brakes yet but, I intend on getting a set of Ross's rear brakes as well. I will be reporting shortly on any fitment issues with this package but I believe it will be a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Okay, this is weird. For some reason my original mount was something around 17.25" wide hole to hole, the block with mounts on was giving 16-7/8" max width with the mounts from a 69 Mustang i believe. So my brother and I had Mike make the holes closer together and had him lower it about an inch too at the same time because that was what our dimensions were telling us fit with what we were trying to do. In anycase we later noticed that we needed to cut down the center section of the mount by about an inch as well since we didn't really consider the center spacing. In anycase it works and the engine sits quite low, so I would say I am pretty happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoeightnine Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 I see. That motor IS low! I didn't have any fitment issue on the first test fit. I used mounts for the motor year (66). It was a bare block then so the rest of the story has yet to be told. Thanks for the pics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rival5 Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 rudypoochris I see having Mike lower the mount an inch allowed you to get the harmonic balancer just above the cross member. I'm using Al's mount and I also had to modify the the center to get the oil pan to clear. I thought about having Al's mount made lower but I didn't, with the motor all the way back I have the front of the oil pan a little behind the steering and just above the cross member. In this position the hood just barley doesn't clear so I'm in the middle of modifying my hood. A link to my Gallery http://206.169.90.30/mike/view_album.php?set_albumName=Z-Project Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QuantumDragon Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 OK also put my /signed on the OP's suggestion for an FAQ. I just got to this website after starting to consider a Z swap and you can't find things very well. I know there are some ancient posts here and there; small portions of info spread around, but a lot of the meat and potatoes posts with pics are so old that the links and images are gone. That being said, there are many more recent posts of guys looking to join the band; asking great questions and I keep seeing "do a search" which, to be honest, to a new guy is getting a tad frustrating. I am doing searches and have gone back 9~12 months. Links are dead, missing or no longer populated with the ever crucial images. Things that would be good to know/organize: What custom parts you'd need that aren't on either car Who sells good parts What options you have for mounting the engine What manifolds for EFI will work with what setup Anyone have a curb weight of a stock 5.0 hybrid with aluminum heads, etc? Real world necessities for suspension and reinforcement Linkage to regular Z sites to help know what to look for in an optimum 5.0 swappable car Basica interface solutions/options like steering rack, speedo, propshaft, power steering pump, clutch cable, throttle cable, etc. etc. Many thanks, and YES, I will continue to search, too. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 Rudypoochris and Rival5 have installed the same engine (basically) with two different results in regards to the oil pan/crossmember relationship. This issue is probably the single most important point in a SBF install, and once the specifics of why these two differ is answered, then I feel 80% of the frustrations and apprehension of this swap will be addressed. DavyZ, I get calls and emails even to this day on the Zhome.com write-up that I did many years ago. It would probably do a lot of folks a service by going into more specifics as to what, why, and how I did what I did. I'll bet the queries slow down then. Sounds do-able. We've got lots of folks to proof/critique it for additional comments that would benefit the reader as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoeightnine Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 The pans do differ in the late model years. There is even a rear sump version. I dont have the data in front of me but in passing I have read about it. The oil drain location is another item that tends to wander about from year to year. Im putting my cash on the oil pan configuration as the driver. I would like to see some motor mount comparisons as a seconday factor. My first test fit presented no issues with clearance. But when I put the new chrome pan on maybe so. The block dimensions have remained scary consistant through out the years so I would reasearch in the above two areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 I believe I have just the regular foxbody oil pan. It is the double sump. With the smaller sump up front. We had to make a new oil drain for the front sump since the original one is pretty much inaccessible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rival5 Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 I also have a foxbody oil pan with the small sump upfront. I wasn't planning on using the front plug, but I believe it is removable in its current location. I thought about cutting the crossmember like rudypoochris but I found it easier to cut and re-weld the way I did it, though rudypoochris's way removes all error of re-welding the motor mounts the wrong distance apart. rudypoochris, how much did you exactly ask to have the mounts lowered? Your motor appears at least two inches or so lower then mine. Also were does the bottom of the Ford crossmember sit compared to the Datsun steering/crossmember? The bottom of my Ford crossmember is about flush with the bottom of the Datsun steering/crossmemer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 rudypoochris, how much did you exactly ask to have the mounts lowered? Your motor appears at least two inches or so lower then mine. Also were does the bottom of the Ford crossmember sit compared to the Datsun steering/crossmember? The bottom of my Ford crossmember is about flush with the bottom of the Datsun steering/crossmemer. Oh man, the mount has been modified alot. I am honestly not sure what the specs on it are anymore. Next time I am at my brothers (where my car resides) I can jot down all of that information as well as some more detailed pictures. I believe the bottom of the Ford mount is acctually rather high. Mine is 1" in the center as opposed to the normal 2" sq tubing. The top of it sits about 1/8-1/4" down from the center of the pan, if I remember correctly. At that angle you can't even really see it. My mount lowers the engine since the bolt holes are significantly lower than the normal Alsil's mount. Look closely at the positioning of them: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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