proxlamus© Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Alrighty... I have a P90a head that has been ticking from time to time.. so I decided to convert to solid lifters.. I bought a spare P90 .. and the TimeSert or whatever inserts... I installed the new solid lifters and began adjusting the valves. Now I am using a feeler guage, and my process is slip in the correct size feeler guage so it slides in fairly easily. I have the following measurements.. I am not sure if it's different for P90's versus a N42 for example HOT Exhuast .012 in Intake .010 in Now I am able to slip in the correct size feeler guage fairly smoothly.. the next size up I have to sorta wiggle in and it slides in very snug. When I start the car and its operating warm, Ive checked the measurements and made any necessary adjustments. However.. slight problem.. the mo fo sounds like a diesal! I'm not sure if its because I just jumped from Hydraulic to Solids and thats how noisey they are.. but it sounds like a diesal. What happens if the valves are too loose? What happens if the valves are too tight? (Z-gad I also sent you a PM.. I know you've dealt with hydraulics to solids, just in case you don't see this) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olie05 Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Did it start sounding like a diesel after you adjusted the valves or did it develop after a while? Perhaps you did not tighten down the locknuts enough and they have since slipped. The way I adjust my valves I use the feeler gauge, and adjust the valve to where the feeler gauge has just a little bit of drag on it when i'm pulling it out. The way I do it, the next size up doesn't even fit. I don't know if that is a bad way to do it, but it has worked for me for about 3 years now, and my engine definitely does not sound like a diesel. (although there is some light ticking) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted December 10, 2006 Administrators Share Posted December 10, 2006 By chance are you still using the hydraulic cam with solid rockers? The hydraulic cam is ground for zero lash so when you install solid pivots and set it up with any amount of lash, the cam lobes now literally “smack” the rocker instead of just riding up on them as the lash is taken up. Solid cams are ground with the opening and closing ramps in such a way as to take up the lash “gently” as the lobe approaches the rocker, i.e. doesn’t SMACK the rockers. If you are using solid cam now, then there is something else going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted December 10, 2006 Author Share Posted December 10, 2006 Well I am using a P90a that had hydraulic lifters.. stock cam.. stock everything.. i just added solid lifters How can I tell if I have a hydraulic cam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 280ZForce Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Well I am using a P90a that had hydraulic lifters.. stock cam.. stock everything.. i just added solid lifters How can I tell if I have a hydraulic cam? well if you are using the p90a head and you just converted it to solid lifters, then it has to have a hydraulic cam on it. Because all you did was change the lifters, not the cam, so that means a hydraulic cam is still on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Yes, you will need to switch to a solid style cam. You also need to make sure the wipe pattern is correct. Raising and lowering the posts will move your wipe pattern.....right BRAAP? BTW, don't throw out your hydraulic posts, they are probably still ok and are very rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted December 11, 2006 Author Share Posted December 11, 2006 Unbelievable.. stupid stupid hydraulic system. I am honestly about to go back.. clean the hydraulic lifters.. and install them. If not.. a new freakn P90 will go on.. this is crazy. gggrrroowwll.. Thanks guys.. I really appreciate your help with everything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted December 12, 2006 Author Share Posted December 12, 2006 can I safely run the car for sometime with this setup? or will this kill the hydraulic camshaft and rockers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONGO510 Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 I would not run it until the situation is resolved. You may end up with junk cam and lifters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 Alrighty... I went ahead and purchased the parts needed for the solid lifter conversion. I purchased the time-sert inserts.. and a spare P90 and I used the solid lifters. I soon found out.. after starting the engine up... that it sounded like a freakn diesal.. and yes everything was adjusted properly to spec.. hot and cold. Well here is one thing NO one ever mentioned about the solid lifter conversion. The hydraulic camshaft has a different shaped cam lobe.. and is designed to smoothly ramp up on the hydraulic lifters. When you use the solid lifters on the hydraulic camshaft.. the hydraulic camshaft "slaps" the rocker arm.. which creates noise and wearing of the rocker arms and camshaft lobe.. maybe more. (Thanks BRAAP for the info) This means you MUST use the solid lifters as well as the solid camshaft! MUST!!! But here are the pictures of the solid lifter conversion.. which is now deemed a complete and total waste UNLESS you convert to a solid camshaft.. This is a picture of a P90 SOLID head.. Hydraulic lifter on the left.. Solid on the right with the insert This is a picture of the HYDRAULIC P90a head.. notice the countersink in the lifter threading? This is why you need the insert.. in addition to the diff diameter in the lifters. I went ahead and grabbed my old hydraulic lifters.. and bought 4 little plastic tubs from Home Depot for $3.00. -1 tub was the disassembly tub and i drained all the oil in there -1 tub was filled with Toulene and i washed the parts for a few minutes -1 tub was also filled with Toulene but was the "clean" tub to remove any excess oil/gunk and was free from contaminants. -1 tub was full of Automatic transmission fluid I then assembled the hydraulic lifter under the ATF since it is a detergant, but is still able to lubricate the lifter so I dont have a dry start. (one note.. when you full the lifter up with oil, and drop the spring in, you can not push in the piston with the ball and spring built in. I used a small screwdriver to push the ball down onto the spring, which allowed the ATF to flow through the piston which allows the lifter pivot thing to slide down all the way) I started the car up.. it ticked for a few minutes and then stopped. Overall this was not the way I had hopped.. but I was able to fix the ticking problem and I learned that you CAN NOT simply switch the lifters. for more information on how to dis-mantle and assemble the hydraulic lifters, please check out this link http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=115760 =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Why didn't you just get a NA cam? I guess if you had to have the transportation I understand, but it seems like a shame to go through all that hassle then put it back. I'd be looking to go back to the solid lifters, and find a bigger cam so you can use that Holset you got on there to its full potential... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olie05 Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Did the timeserts come out easily? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 the timeserts were a bitch to pull out.. I hate them.. 3 out of the 12 came out .. the others were stuck inside.. I actually took a screwdriver.. and partially scored the threads.. so the lifter would screw on very snug and lift the whole insert out. LoL.. Jon I did not convert to a solid cam because of a time crunch.. I have finals tomarrow and my car is a daily driver.. keep in mind I have 2 spare P90 heads.. so I will throw on a solid P90 in the future with a very nice setup.. (evil grin) by the way.. the main reason I did this swap was to stop the annoying ticking.. cleaning the hydraulic lifters did the trick!! yeppie! and no more adjusting.. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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