HELP!! Electricians will I burn down my house, kill someone

[Tony D]

My meter has no seal on it. They forgot. They left 6 seals laying on the top of the panel...they disapeared.

 

Did I mention I have a lead seal crimper?

 

I pull my meter on a regular basis because of some stuff I have to do with the busbars in the service panel separate from my house. The service to that panel is 250A, but each branch circuit is less, house, shop, shed.

 

Connecting the main feeds to each requires I pull the meter. I like a totally dead circuit when doing those busbar kind of connections.

 

I might go with a DRYER outlet backfeeding the house with the service disconnect breaker in the panel being opened. With appropriate S/O 4 Cord.

 

But I would not backfeed 110 to a 15A plug. No way, no how!

[Pop N Wood]

But I would not backfeed 110 to a 15A plug. No way, no how!

 

Agreed

[ezzzzzzz]

DO what you want. I've read all of these posts and I know for a fact that my advice is the only proper way to do this. All of the gibberish about 'Don't forget to throw the main breaker, etc.' is the very reason that homes burn down and people get killed. I've spent 30 years working in a naval shipyard, most of that was related to weapon systems (name it and I've probably worked on it). During that time I've seen many men permanently injured and killed (no bullshit there!) because someone decided it was okay to circumvent procedure (read that as shortcut). I've trained many apprentices and my biggest emphasis was always doing it right...never shortcut. None of these men were ever injured on my jobs because safety was always the MOST IMPORTANT criteria. Most likely nothing will go wrong IF you remember all of 'gotta do's' BUT if you f**k up only one time what might the consequences be??? Okay, I'm done with my rant.

[Buzz]

The dryer outlet set up will work fine ,doublended male plugs off of the gen to the dryer outlet.It's just like tying it to a 2 pole breaker,Just make sure your dryer outlet is a 4 wire 220 not a 3 wire 220. On some older dryers they used 3 wire no neutral .You need a neutral back to the panel for the 120volt circuits. IN 3 wire circuits they cheat and use ground at the dryer for control 120volts. It's Not right but it works! Just make sure your wiring is heavy enough to handle the load. # 10 gauge is good for 30 amp. And make sure you shut off the main disconnect that feeds to from the meter before you do anything. Remeber this is just TEMPERARY!!!! When working with electric always assume it's live and becare full. Saftey first,One hand in your pocket so you don't get hit across your heart.

[Buzz]

ezzzzzzz: Is right you assume the risk .But if you shut off the main breaker that feeds the panel from the meter there is NO way the power can feed back threw to the power lines. First rule of electricity is assume that every circuit is live.The linemen should no that! And yes a transfer switch would be safer,but he needs power now not in 2 weeks when a electrician can come and hook up a transfer switch.

[ezzzzzzz]

Here's a quick scenerio that has happened. The lineman is busy working the main lines after having checked for live wires. He knows the grid is off and can proceed safely. The homeowner is doing his handiwork in the main breaker box and for reasons unknown accidentally throws the main breaker with the generator running. Ouch or worse up on the pole. Don't forget the other scenario where the owner throws the main breaker because power is restored but forgets the gen is connected and running. Ouch again. This is real life and these mistakes do happen. It only takes one brief moment to screw up really bad. I'm done.........

[DemonZ]

I fully understand that a small mistep can have catastrophic consequences. Mistakes are unforgiveable dealing with lethal forces in cold, rushed, dark, uncomfortable circumstances. I assume lines are hot unless verified (by me). That being said, if proceedure and sequence is stictly followed, all should be ok.

 

 

 

--The main switch will always be off when gen. is connected.

 

--The grid is always disconnect from gen.

 

 

 

I saw a Transfer switch at Homers for $300, but don't have time for it right now. So I want to know more about the wiring to the dryer outlet.

 

 

My dryer is 3 pole, but my gen. is 4. What should I do?

 

 

Will the gen. give ALL available power through the 240 outlet? That is, the sum of all power from gen will get pulled through the 240 recepticle, and there will be no benefit to also using the 120 volt plug ins.

[Tony D]

What you have coming to your house is 240/220. This is split in your panel with some busbars that hook to your circuit breakers. 110V breakers feed off ONE busbar and a Neutral, while the 220V breakers feed off BOTH bussbars, with another line in there for ground.

 

If you feed 110V to a plug in your house, you feed HALF the box with power. And this means HALF of any 220V appliance will have power, the other will be a 'dead leg'. If you feed with the 240 socket, you will backfeed to both your bussbars, and power everything equally just like the power company. So yes, all the generator power will go into the panel. Making a balanced load will be up to you...

 

As stated above, the service disconnect must be opened as you can backfeed the grid. Myself, I have service disconnect, a power panel separate, and a meter I can pull. Pulling the meter takes you off the grid totally (with the above caveats about breaking seals, etc...)

 

If you use the 240 Plug (and that is the only way using a plug would work even somewhat safely) then the 110V plug will not be needed. There is no guaranteed way with 110plugs to insure you feed to both bussbars, or in any event not do something bad electrically (I recall "synchronous buss connections and phase rotation checks" lectures now...)

 

Shut off ALL your breakers before connecting. Then turn them on one at a time as you need the circuits. I would not turn them all on unless you have a generator capable of all your needs. I personally would chack voltage with everything think you need to have running, as said above little generators are not the greatest on regulation sometimes.

 

Even an auto transfer switch can fail. For the effort, a manual transfer switch would be the way I went. I like to turn it over and know mechanically there is no way for it to stick in position (been there, seen that)...

[Pop N Wood]

I saw a Transfer switch at Homers for $300, but don't have time for it right now. So I want to know more about the wiring to the dryer outlet.

 

You can’t legally hook it up yourself anyway. Plus the way those thing are generally wired requires you to pull the circuits (i.e. breakers) you want to power out of your main panel and put them into the panel that will be powered by the generator. It is not a harry home owner type job. An electrician will probably charge a few thousand dollars to install one legally.

 

My dryer is 3 pole, but my gen. is 4. What should I do?

 

The “4 pole†will be two hot wires, a ground and a neutral. Just use the two hot wires (red and black generally) and the white neutral.

 

Will the gen. give ALL available power through the 240 outlet? That is, the sum of all power from gen will get pulled through the 240 recepticle, and there will be no benefit to also using the 120 volt plug ins.

 

Only hook up the 240V outlet from the generator to the house. It will be fused at something like 20 or 30 amps. That is all the power you will have to pump into your house. Ideally the breaker on the generator’s 240V outlet should be smaller than the house breaker going to the dryer.

 

Don’t try hooking the 110V outlets to the house. You only want one connection (the 240V one) between the house and the generator. You can still use the 110V outlets on the generator to run extension cords to single point loads.

 

The guys do have some good points about safety. If you don’t know what you are doing or aren’t really comfortable around electricity then get someone to help you or stick to the extension cords. Also be careful about not turning too many things on.

 

But I still feel as long as you are careful about disconnecting the main breaker before you hook up the generator and disconnecting the generator before shutting the main breaker you should be OK. I know several people who hook up emergency generators through their dryers or hot tub connections. Probably pisses off the professionals but it beats freezing.

 

On another note, I have been reading about all the people in the northwest getting killed from carbon monoxide. Obviously make sure the generator is outside and not in any enclosure. The one guy died because his generator was in the garage. Also make sure you chain that bad boy down. It is amazing how people can steal a running generator and make a get away before the homeowner can make it out his door.

[z-hag]

in my sailboat, there is a main switch that cuts off what is not wanted--perko makes them. my genny is able to plug into a receptacle which serves as shore power on a dock. when i use my genny, i plug into that circuit. after this emergency is over with, you might consider placing a special emergency genny circuit for your home--if yo even think the power might go out again, it is a really good idea--also there are solar panels for rooftops--look lke shingles--would not be a bad idea to set up yur electrical system in yor home with the options a boat oerr rv has--that way you arte prepared for emergencies................just a thought.........

[Buzz]

You have to make sure you have 4 wires . It won't work with 3. Or should I say IT's not right!!!! If you have a 3 wire outlet at your dryer don't do it!! You need 2 hots(black,red),a neutral( the grounded current carring conductor)ie (white) and a ground(green or bare).the blk and red are 220 volts and the white gives you the 110volts with either one of the hots blk or red.don't use the ground for current!!!

[Buzz]

due: If you are unsure about doing any of this don't do anything you might get hurt!! Buy some x cords and some multi outle pluigs and feed stuff that way.

[philipl]

1st Turn Off Main Disconnect 2nd Make Sure Main Disconnect Is Off And Tape It Down With Some Good Tape To Make Sure No One In The Family Turns It On Put A Tag On It.10k At 240v Should Be Roughly An 40amp Capacity This Means You Could Backfeed Through Any 240v Circuits Wich Are Properly Wire Sized.possible Choices Could Be Outdor Air Conditioner Unit Service Disconect. Dryer Receptical Etc. Your Breaker On Your Generator Will Protect Everything Downstream Of It At Whatever Its Rated For 30a 240v Or 40a 240v A Slight Problem With This Is If You Hook Up To A Circuit That Is 30a And Wire Sized Accordingly With A Generator Outputting 40a The Generator Breaker Will Not Trip Even Though You Have Exceeded The Wires Ampacity Rating.this Would Probably Be A Very Unlikley Event Because The Surge In Load Would Normally Always Be Derived In Front Of The Breaker In The Panel Wich Would Trip First Under A Load Surge Its Just A Fine Detale To Remember.one Thing To Look For Is That The Circuit You Hook Into Is Properly Wiresized 30amp Should Be #10 Gauge Copper Wire .40amp Should Be #8 Gauge Copper.a Simple Formula For Figuring What You Can Run In Your House Is Add Up The Wattage Of Your Appliances Or Devices In Your House If There Not Listed In Watts Figuire Up Your Wattage By Multiplying Voltage Of Device 120v Or 220v By Amp Rating On Device This Will Give You Watt Rating For Each Item.ive Done Industrial Controls For 20 Years And Not Saying This Info Is Perfect But These Are Some Very Good Pointers If You Do This Yourself.. Always Remember Never Turn Main On Until Generator Is Disconnected OR DEATH OR INJURY CAN HAPPEN.