Miles Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 How well does the Toyota brake upgrade work. I have a new master and master vac in place place in a 72 240Z and ready to do the Toyota brake upgrade, but review of the forum on this subject indicates some folks are happy with the Toyota conversion and some have had problems. Given new stock rotors, new master and master vac can I expect a bunch of new problems with the conversion or will I see some improvement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 Miles, I believe there are two different "Toyota" conversions: one retains the stock solid rotors and the other uses vented rotors and a machined spacer. I have done the solid rotor swap and the calipers literally bolt on with no further modifications besides having to bend the metal brake line at the caliper just a bit. Its a cinch. I am happy with the conversion and have had zero problems. Just make sure you mount the calipers with the bleeder screws facing UP. I am getting ready to do the rear disc conversion as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 Many people (I would be one of them )would say that the stock caliper is not the biggest problem with the Z front brakes. The non vented rotor is not able to dissipate heat very well and therefore causes a great deal of fade which reduces braking performance. You know what we really need? We need a GTech, several cars with different brake setups and a big chunk of pavement. Several 60 to 0 (and perhaps 100 to 0) measurements would give us alot more acutal data to go on. There are, after all, several different bolt on brake mods and then there are the aftermarket brake kits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 I've done the swap as well using stock rotors and bolt on toyo calipers. Provided the backs are in good shape (use some better shoes, I still need to do this) and your not needing the repeated stops that autox or roadracing require, they'll be fine for your average street driven car. I've stopped mine in some pretty short distances (like the stop sign you notice at the last minute kinda short distances) and it was surprising. Even the wife noticed the difference when she drove it. (she's a member of the late brakers club.. and no she doesnt' get to drive it much ) The small brakes do look out of place if your running a big spoke wheel thats open pattern shows the brake rotors and calipers. For a hybrid on a budget I would probably at least do this brake upgrade, IMHO. You may notice a slight increase in pedal travel, I'm told that can be adjusted somewhat on the pushrod going to the master, mine needs a master cylinder and I'll be changing it to a 79zx master to get a bit larger master cyl bore. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Baldwin Posted November 18, 2001 Share Posted November 18, 2001 Broken record man here. I've had NO problems with the stock setup on plenty of road courses (WAY more heat than ANY street or quarter stuff). The Toyo 4-pots do look cooler, but they also WEIGH more. As long as there's enough braking power to lock the tires, more gets you zero. I did the rear disc swap to avoid having to adjust at the track, and to get (presumably) more rear bias (drums are more lockup-prone). Going to Lime Rock on Tuesday, with my all stock front/'82-'83 ZX rear setup. Just bled the brakes w/ DOT4, ready fer action! A well maintained stock system with decent pads/shoes and fresh fluid is a lot better than most people realize, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinked_Chrome Posted November 18, 2001 Share Posted November 18, 2001 my highschool has a GTech, and i'm about to do the toyo with vented rotor upgrade. I'll see if I can get some numbers before the snow comes. I also had a question about the swap. Will the '84 turbo rotor and hub bolt-on for an easy upgrade to 5-lug? If not how do I go about changing to 5 lug bolt pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted November 18, 2001 Author Share Posted November 18, 2001 Lone I priced the Toyota conversion here in Sacramento using parts purchased from a Nissan dealer, Southern Auto parts and Auto Zone. To buy rebuilt Toyota calipers and install stock rotors with new bearings and seals is only going to cost about $250.00. I am going to keep the MC stock, but I am concerned about two things: 1-will there be a problem suppling enough volume with the stock MC and 2-if I go to a larger bore on the MC will I then have problems modulating the brakes and/or will they grab at the bottom of pedal travel? Cost-wise rebuilding the front brakes with stock parts costs about the same as the Toyota conversion. Either way I just want to do this once right the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted November 18, 2001 Share Posted November 18, 2001 i agree with Dan and jeromio. stock calipers work fine. (when in good cond) so save your $$. IMO toyota calipers on stock rotors is a waste of money and time. the problem isnt the calipers its the solid rotors so unless you go to vented do nothing..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted November 18, 2001 Share Posted November 18, 2001 oh forgot.... yes the 84 turbo hub and rotor can be used for the 5 lug conversion.... i've done it quite a few times/////// Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 18, 2001 Share Posted November 18, 2001 Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 18, 2001 Share Posted November 18, 2001 If your not going vented save your money for a good quailty sinterd metalic pad not semi-metalic.EBC,Metal masters and others make high quality pads so check there listings to see what they offer for your Z calipers.You said rebuilt uinits are the same price for Z or toyota,so my question is do you really need rebuilt units?Pop out the piston with compessed air and inspect the bore if there is no excessive pitting then clean and reinstall with fresh seals and you should have no problems.If you do spend the money on the toyota units get the later(87 4runner)units and use a vented rotor,either the 300zx unit or 87 maxima.Both are about the same size just the machine work is different for each(the 300 requires a spacer while the maxima unit requires two new holes and the heart hole opened up slightly)Either way the stock master works well with the toy calipers,but if you go with rear disks then a later 280zx master will be needed.If this is just a street car then a high quality set of pads and shoes,new steel flex lines and a proper bleed job might keep you very happy.One other thing to consider is the 4piston vented units don't fit behind many 14inch wheels so test fit before you buy(maybe you can find someone in your area with the swap who will let you try your wheels first). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCZ Posted November 19, 2001 Share Posted November 19, 2001 I have stock brakes on my 71(L28) that are in good condition with stainless hoses and fresh fluid. Stopping power is fine and pedal feel is great, but I warped my rotors after three 20 min track sessions. I'm a novice so maybe I was on the brakes too much? Can I run a vented rotor with stock calipers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted November 19, 2001 Share Posted November 19, 2001 No can do. I may be possible to insert a machined spacer in-between the two caliper halves (to widen the pad spacing), but this could be tricky without o-ring grooves, etc. It would be easier to do the other swap options instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tom sixbey Posted November 30, 2001 Share Posted November 30, 2001 guys i think we should look at brake cooling options too.. I'm going to work on a ram-air cooling system for the zcar that will make use of some of that excessive "mouth" that the zcar has.. the system will make use of aluminum and fiberglass hose that will have a smooth inner surface (no turbulence) and will follow suspension movements and blast air directly into the center of a vented rotor to aid in forcing air out through the slots.. when i'm done i'll probably make a kit for it, or do a write up on it.. i should probably have it built by next summer, so i'll keep you guys posted.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted November 30, 2001 Share Posted November 30, 2001 brake cooling is only needed on the track. repeated stops. if you have BIG brakes you want some heat in them to work ok. adding cooling may be not enough for them to work efficiently. lots of ITS 240s run ducts- but they also must use stock rotors. many of the GT cars dont need cooling as the brakes are bigger than needed. i had cooling ducts and hoses on my 510 it needed them but on my new tubeframe car it doesnt have any. doesnt need them- the car is so lite that the brakes arent overheating . its just more efficient overall. so before you go adding cooling and ducts make sure with temp paint that your braking system is getting past the pad operating temps and that you can control it to the temp range you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tom sixbey Posted November 30, 2001 Share Posted November 30, 2001 good point mike... one i failed to mention.. I've been hanging out with the ITS guys for too long! I'm still going to attempt that cooling kit eventually just for the sake of having something to build, even if i dont need it myself... I've had my stock brakes fade all too often, and they're freshly rebuilt.. It also needs to be said that a change to a more open rim will make a huge improvement on cooling. BTW mike, i'm looking for future brake upgrades, and i'll probably order one of yours! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 1, 2001 Share Posted December 1, 2001 You guys will have to forgive me as I just scanned the thread... My .02$ worth is that Dan B. Is spot on. If you use good high temp fluid, performance pads and use a good performance shoe in the rear, You should brake fine for day in - day out driving and the occassional autocross. If you go to a track day event or driving school, plan to arrive with fresh fluid in the lines and master, and new pads and shoes. Larger brake calipers require a better rotor to fully maximize the four pistons on the toyota caliper and that caliper is SUPER heavy. You need to remember that the weight of the caliper can slow the response of the suspension, so adding a heavy caliper to hang off the strut assembly may hinder a Z that has been lightened to do SCCA autocross or roadcourse duties... Good thread guys... Mike Kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 1, 2001 Share Posted December 1, 2001 Most of you guys know way more about braking than I ever will. Just one comment. I have Toyota calipers and am happy with them. I did the swap and it was cool. Mine fit under 14" American Racing wheels with a 1/8" spacer. Without the spacer, the calipers rubbed just enough to scare the heck out of me under hard braking only. The brakes did NOT fit under 14" stock magnesium wheels. Also, I replaced worn out and nasty stock calipers. I think the misconception comes from the fact that most folks only do this swap when something is drastically wrong with their stock setup; thus the impression of a big improvement. Still, for daily driving I would do it again. They do look cool Okay, it was two comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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