280Zone Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Getting the MS parts together and need some advice as to where to mount air temp sensor? 1? 2? 3? any other suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted January 21, 2007 Administrators Share Posted January 21, 2007 Getting the MS parts together and need some advice as to where to mount air temp sensor? 1? 2? 3? any other suggestions? :biggrin: A search found these quickly, http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=115937&highlight=%22air+temp%22+iat http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=107628&highlight=%22air+temp%22+iat http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=105195&highlight=%22air+temp%22+iat I'm just having a little fun, forgive? To answer your question, not knowing anything about what you're doing, and having only those 3 choices, I'd choose option #1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 That's where mine is, position #1, directly behind the throttle shaft, in the spacer for the 60mm T/B I used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 I put mine after number one, but before number two...that manifold really doesn't look like I remember mine looking before I ground all the garbage off of it...what casting is it? You can see where I put mine in this picture, it's got the little pig tails coming off of it just after the TB (I hadn't wired it yet in this picture) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderllama Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 veritech, that is a clean looking 260/280 engine bay. kudos to you, good sir. i need mine to look like that someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
510six Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 I just put mine in the spot where the cold start injector was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 veritech, that is a clean looking 260/280 engine bay. kudos to you, good sir. i need mine to look like that someday. First time I've been accused of that, but thanks! (it's a 280, by the way) First thing you need to do is order yourself a rusty old header, I find that goes a long way towards cleaning up your engine bay, then you can follow that up with some broken fusible link covers (if you can't find broken ones, you can get some perfectly good ones and break them by setting your intake manifold down on them like I did). Make sure the edges of the fenders are rusty and about to fall off, and you're well on your way to being the next Veritech-Z! In all seriousness, I aspire to having a clean minimalist engine bay, but I'm what you call more of an "idea man", meaning I have all the great ideas/good intentions you can shake a stick at, but not as much of the technical prowess/patience for proper installation procedures necessary to carry them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trwebb26 Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 I put mine in the cold start hole. BTW - it is a 3/8" NPT - not a 1/2" NPT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mario_82_ZXT Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Didn't we have a huge debate about where to put it? Saying it would heat soak on the intake manifold, etc? I put mine in the tubing about 6" before the TB Mario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 This would be at least the third one.... Search people!! Nice post Ron... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280Zone Posted January 23, 2007 Author Share Posted January 23, 2007 No problem telling me to search:) Especially when you have covered it very well in the past. I did look through a few pages but didn't find the definitive ones you posted. BTW, it's an 81 intake so no cold start injector to utilize. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linluv84 Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 As long as mine is still NA, the IAT is a gm coolant sensor that lives tucked behind the harness in front of the radiator. When it is turbo, I plan on an open element sensor in the intake piping. I wouldnt be worried about heat-soak, but the sensor getting damaged from engine vibration... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 I don't see how the GM coolant temp sensor will get damaged by vibration, they only use the same part number for every temp sending application on the car...At least on the Saturns they do. IAT, CTS, Trans Temp, all carry the same part number on the S-cars. I work in a Saturn parts department, so I sell them every day. It isn't likely to see any more vibration on the intake manifold then it would on the block, transmission, or cylinder head is the point I was getting at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 The solid temp sensors are pretty much impervious to vibration, the open element units may be a bit more sensitive, though. There is the 'response' argument on open element -v- solid sensor as well, but for most applications I don't think the lag in response is that dramatic---especially in the case of a well designed solid sensor. I went with solid sensor instead of open element for that reason. If I start seeing a lag in temperatures compared to my J-Thermocouple Reader, I'll consider changing...until then, solid sensor for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linluv84 Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 I was referring to an open element (little plastic cage) sensor mounted to the intake. I believe it is mentioned somewhere in the Megamanual... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Hear is another thread that debates the IAT location and heat soak: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=117582 Hear are some tidbits from my posts on the subject: I still believe that the closer the sensor is to the intake port on the head, the more accurate the measurement. Anywhere upstream of that will be less accurate IMO. The open element sensor is already thermally isolated from the threaded collar. Not sure if any more isolation would help. I'm also not sure why people having problems with heat soak, but we've been there before. Every install I've done, I put it in the intake manifold, and none of them show any signs of heat soak. Even when using the CLT sensor as an IAT (no thermal isolation). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 The reason I went with the solid sensor is because it's actually used in that capacity by Saturn on OEM applications. If the shoe fits... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted January 24, 2007 Administrators Share Posted January 24, 2007 I'm also not sure why people having problems with heat soak, but we've been there before. Every install I've done, I put it in the intake manifold, and none of them show any signs of heat soak. Even when using the CLT sensor as an IAT (no thermal isolation). At the risk of re-opening a can of worms, I think your point of view is just different than my own. What I'm calling heat soak is an erroneously high reading of the IAT from outside sources. What you describe fits that from my perspective. However right or wrong I may be, I don't believe seeing 130 or 140 deg IAT reading is 'normal' on a 60 degree day (NA car). The manifold itself may very well be that temp. (or hotter) but the air spends only milliseconds of time in contact with the manifold (even at small throttle angles). You and I both know that time is a major component of heat transfer. So... I don't see how the incoming air would have the time to reach those temps. I can easily imagine a 10 or 15 degree rise, but not much more under normal conditions. Until someone can explain to me how air temps can rise 60-80 degrees, again assuming an NA car, I'm sticking to my feeble opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 The easiest way to determine heat soak or IAT Error, and the way OEM's do it is with a very narrow open thermocouple juncture stuck in various openings at various places along the intake tract. I know I can use a Swagelock Thermocouple Fitting, and stick a open junction CrAl unit dead nuts in the center of the manifold plenum, and with some fenagiling, down one of the runners from the opposite side of the intake plenum wall. The leads I have are 6+ inches long, so you can dangle them tantilizingly just about anywhere. This would probably be the best way to determine how much error you are getting from any given location---by referencing the thermocouple as actual air temperature, versus what your manifold IAT sensor is telling you your temp is... With a closed hood, going down the road chances are good the ambient temp on a N/A is close. But in stop and go, inlet air temp starts to rise for whatever reason. How much is dependent on the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted January 24, 2007 Administrators Share Posted January 24, 2007 Tony, That beg's the question... Have you done that type of testing with your IAT mounted directly behind the TB? Findings? Enquiring minds want to know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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