Griffin Radiators 1, Dat240zg 0 - back to radiator square 1 - new waterpump question.

[dat240zg]

Well, the old phrase "don't count your custom radiators before their built" or however that goes sure is true...

 

Griffin initially quoted me $400 for a custom downsized LT1 radiator with a 3" core and the stock style tanks with all hookups - including factory oil cooler fitting. When I faxed them the mockup sheet, they decided that $750 was the price of the day....

 

After explaining in fairly clear terms where they could put their radiator, I canceled the radiator order and promptly ordered the JTR radiator.

 

Here's the meat of the problem: the water pump for the LT1 with the factory oil cooler has (I believe) different "pipes" leading to the oil cooler than those LT1's that didn't have the oil cooler.

 

Now that I'm not going to use the factory setup, I need to cap (seems like a band aid fix) the water pump to oil cooler lines or replace the water pump with one that doesn't have the fittings. I'd rather get the different water pump.

 

All this to say, does any one know if either the corvette (w/LT1) WP or the Caprice w/LT1 water pumps will work as far as the heater hoses goe? It seems like there would be some kind of interference with the alternator mount.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Bryan

[bjhines]

run it to a defroster tube right under the windshield... or a custom seat heater... ohohhh... HEADLIGHT WARMERS!!!! yea!!!

 

Bust some caps in that sucker....

[Careless]

Well, the old phrase "don't count your custom radiators before their built" or however that goes sure is true...

 

Griffin initially quoted me $400 for a custom downsized LT1 radiator with a 3" core and the stock style tanks with all hookups - including factory oil cooler fitting. When I faxed them the mockup sheet, they decided that $750 was the price of the day....

 

After explaining in fairly clear terms where they could put their radiator, I canceled the radiator order and promptly ordered the JTR radiator.

 

Here's the meat of the problem: the water pump for the LT1 with the factory oil cooler has (I believe) different "pipes" leading to the oil cooler than those LT1's that didn't have the oil cooler.

 

Now that I'm not going to use the factory setup, I need to cap (seems like a band aid fix) the water pump to oil cooler lines or replace the water pump with one that doesn't have the fittings. I'd rather get the different water pump.

 

All this to say, does any one know if either the corvette (w/LT1) WP or the Caprice w/LT1 water pumps will work as far as the heater hoses goe? It seems like there would be some kind of interference with the alternator mount.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Bryan

 

Im sure there are other places that can do the same thing you wanted griffen to do, and on top of that, you would be paying probably the same thing when everything is said and done, if you go with the JTR one and teh waterpump, and whatever else you may find that you need once you're done, no?

 

what'r you gonna save? 50 bucks? and spend a couple headache coupons?

[MikeJTR]

 

Here's the meat of the problem: the water pump for the LT1 with the factory oil cooler has (I believe) different "pipes" leading to the oil cooler than those LT1's that didn't have the oil cooler.

 

Now that I'm not going to use the factory setup, I need to cap (seems like a band aid fix) the water pump to oil cooler lines or replace the water pump with one that doesn't have the fittings. I'd rather get the different water pump.

 

All this to say, does any one know if either the corvette (w/LT1) WP or the Caprice w/LT1 water pumps will work as far as the heater hoses goe? It seems like there would be some kind of interference with the alternator mount.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Bryan

 

The hose fitting is pressed into the Camaro LT1 water pump.

It can be removed by sticking a large screwdriver (or bar) into the fitting and twisting and pulling at the same time. The hole can then be tapped with a 1/2 npt, and plugged with a 1/2 npt plug.

 

If you don't want to modify the water pump, you can run the oil cooler hose into the lower radiator hose using a 1-5/16" x 3/4" (or 5/8", I can't remember) hose tee.

Also, since you have the LT1, you should get the radiator 1-5/16" X 3/8" hose tee for the steam vent tube.

See the following link for hose tees:

http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Parts_TPI-TBI_Brass-Tees.html

[gretchen/jason]

I ran a JTR radiator after 2 weeks i promptly yanked it out and trashed it as it never kept my z cool enough to drive even on a 50 degree day .

 

So i ordered a 2 row from summit and have had no problems with it yet . Just some advice for when ya install the JTR radiator .

 

Jason

[Pop N Wood]

I ran a JTR radiator after 2 weeks i promptly yanked it out and trashed it as it never kept my z cool enough to drive even on a 50 degree day .

 

So i ordered a 2 row from summit and have had no problems with it yet . Just some advice for when ya install the JTR radiator .

 

Jason

 

Not doubting what you say, but you are the first person who I have heard say that. Most guys have good results with the JTR radiator.

[MikeJTR]

I ran a JTR radiator after 2 weeks i promptly yanked it out and trashed it as it never kept my z cool enough to drive even on a 50 degree day .

 

So i ordered a 2 row from summit and have had no problems with it yet . Just some advice for when ya install the JTR radiator .

 

Jason

 

I read your posts in the miscellaneous section concering your cooling problems with the JTR radiator:

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=115320

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=116270

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=115763

 

I never could understand why you couldn't make it run cool in cold weather.

It was never clear to me if you ran the electric cooling fan backwards, or if there was some other problem. You mentioned you had a modified hood than may have affected the air flow through the engine compartment.

 

I would like to see pictures of your current set-up, and I would like to know if there were any other changes you made when you switched radiators.

[Guest Mike]

Mine came with a JTR radiator. My very slight overheating problems were caused by the fact that this is an old install. The rad needed cleaning and the fan was too small. I was driving in 100+ temps in heavy stop-n-go traffic. Oh...and the ignition timing was off.

[COZY Z COLE]

I ran a JTR radiator after 2 weeks i promptly yanked it out and trashed it as it never kept my z cool enough to drive even on a 50 degree day .

 

So i ordered a 2 row from summit and have had no problems with it yet . Just some advice for when ya install the JTR radiator .

 

Jason

 

Let me just say this about the above comment, Jason and I both run Weiand blowers. Roots style blowers by nature generate more heat than a N/A engine. In 30/40 degree weather I still run at 192-200 degree temps around town and 200-210 degrees on the open road. I've been doing this for 5 years and this is a "normal" operating range for my set-up which includes a Taurus 2-speed fan and alum. rad. This is not considered a "hot" running condition for my combo and the motor remains in great shape....

 

 

LARRY

[Teekass]

Let me just say this about the above comment, Jason and I both run Weiand blowers. Roots style blowers by nature generate more heat than a N/A engine. In 30/40 degree weather I still run at 192-200 degree temps around town and 200-210 degrees on the open road. I've been doing this for 5 years and this is a "normal" operating range for my set-up which includes a Taurus 2-speed fan and alum. rad. This is not considered a "hot" running condition for my combo and the motor remains in great shape....

 

LARRY

 

Hey Larry, could you post a link to the radiator that you use (I assume the same one as Jason....Summit 2 row?) The one I see that looks close to being the right size is the SUM-380325?

 

I'm checking local junk yards for the Taurus 2-speed fan that I've read so much about, but no luck yet.......I assume the one I want is 1990 and newer? Is that correct?

 

Thanks alot,

Chris

[gretchen/jason]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/10221975/Jan06_03.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/10221975/Jan06_02.jpg

 

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/10221975/Jan06_15.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/10221975/Jan06_14.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/10221975/Jan06_06.jpg

 

Here are a few pics of wht i have

 

I will say this the pics are shown with the JTR rad as i got a hole in my 2 row rad from jegs and had it at the shop being fixed . As soon as its fixed out comes the JTR rad and it goes back on the shelf for a stand by rad . I think in my other reply i said i got rid of it sorry was thinking of something else i keep the JTR rad as a stand by .

 

I have some pics in the photo gallery under the hybrid z pics . Just pic the letter G and look for gretchen/jason there are a few under hood pics and a pic of my cowl induction hood also .

 

Oh yes i do now run a weiand 144 super charger but even without it it still got hot with the JTR radiator . I used and am still using a Black Magic xtreeme electric fan even on the JTR rad i used it . The 2 row alum rad worked as someone told me i know have " more watter that gets cooled " then i did with the 1 row radiator .

 

And i used a Tarus 2 speed fan on both rads and for some reason the Black Magic extreeme fan works the best Summit part #FLX-180 Not sure why but it does a better job for my z for some reason then the Tarus 2 speed fan .

 

The 2 row rad from summit is part #SUM-380325 25 3/4 wide by 19 high .The electric fan covers all but about 1 inch across the bottom of the core and leaves about 1/4 inch of clearance on each side of the rad between the tank and the frame . And i use the JTR craddle mount but had to lower the bottom mount 1 inch to clear the hood for the Rad cap . Other then that no mods were made .

 

But with the 2 row on a 90 degree day i now dont see temps over 190 with a 180 degree stat before i could hit 215 while driving . Now that its cold outside about 30 degrees i hover around 165 with a 180 degree stat .

 

If ya would like different pics ill see what i can do when it quits snowing yuck .

[MikeJTR]

I will say this the pics are shown with the JTR rad as i got a hole in my 2 row rad from jegs and had it at the shop being fixed ..

...Oh yes i do now run a weiand 144 super charger but even without it it still got hot with the JTR radiator ...

And i used a Tarus 2 speed fan on both rads and for some reason the Black Magic extreeme fan works the best Summit part #FLX-180 Not sure why but it does a better job for my z for some reason then the Tarus 2 speed fan .

 

I think the cooling problem you have with the JTR radiator is the cooling fan. I think you have the fan wired backwards.

Easiest way to check is to put a piece of paper in front of the radiator with the fan running to see if it sticks to the radiator. If the paper blows off, you have the fan running backwards.

Also, are you running the heater hoses to the heater core?

[Teekass]

I will say this the pics are shown with the JTR rad as i got a hole in my 2 row rad from jegs and had it at the shop being fixed ..

...Oh yes i do now run a weiand 144 super charger but even without it it still got hot with the JTR radiator ...

And i used a Tarus 2 speed fan on both rads and for some reason the Black Magic extreeme fan works the best Summit part #FLX-180 Not sure why but it does a better job for my z for some reason then the Tarus 2 speed fan .

QUOTE]

 

I think the cooling problem you have with the JTR radiator is the cooling fan. I think you have the fan wired backwards.

Easiest way to check is to put a piece of paper in front of the radiator with the fan running to see if it sticks to the radiator. If the paper blows off' date=' you have the fan running backwards.

Also, are you running the heater hoses to the heater core?[/quote']

 

Hey Mike,

 

I mean this as a sincere question, not confrontational.....Wouldn't the fan direction and heater core useage be irrelevant if he did ran the setups the same way with both radiators?

 

Chris

[Teekass]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/10221975/Jan06_03.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/10221975/Jan06_02.jpg

 

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/10221975/Jan06_15.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/10221975/Jan06_14.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/10221975/Jan06_06.jpg

 

Here are a few pics of wht i have

 

I will say this the pics are shown with the JTR rad as i got a hole in my 2 row rad from jegs and had it at the shop being fixed . As soon as its fixed out comes the JTR rad and it goes back on the shelf for a stand by rad . I think in my other reply i said i got rid of it sorry was thinking of something else i keep the JTR rad as a stand by .

 

I have some pics in the photo gallery under the hybrid z pics . Just pic the letter G and look for gretchen/jason there are a few under hood pics and a pic of my cowl induction hood also .

 

Oh yes i do now run a weiand 144 super charger but even without it it still got hot with the JTR radiator . I used and am still using a Black Magic xtreeme electric fan even on the JTR rad i used it . The 2 row alum rad worked as someone told me i know have " more watter that gets cooled " then i did with the 1 row radiator .

 

And i used a Tarus 2 speed fan on both rads and for some reason the Black Magic extreeme fan works the best Summit part #FLX-180 Not sure why but it does a better job for my z for some reason then the Tarus 2 speed fan .

 

The 2 row rad from summit is part #SUM-380325 25 3/4 wide by 19 high .The electric fan covers all but about 1 inch across the bottom of the core and leaves about 1/4 inch of clearance on each side of the rad between the tank and the frame . And i use the JTR craddle mount but had to lower the bottom mount 1 inch to clear the hood for the Rad cap . Other then that no mods were made .

 

But with the 2 row on a 90 degree day i now dont see temps over 190 with a 180 degree stat before i could hit 215 while driving . Now that its cold outside about 30 degrees i hover around 165 with a 180 degree stat .

 

If ya would like different pics ill see what i can do when it quits snowing yuck .

 

 

Great informative post. That's just what I needed, a complete setup that fits, performs, and you're happy with. Thanks alot.

 

I put the links below for other readers:

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2D380325&N=700+0&autoview=sku

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=FLX%2D180&N=700+0&autoview=sku

 

https://shell7.tdl.com/~jags/Pages/Parts_DAT-Radiator-Mount.html

 

Oh yeah, I do need one more favor. I'll be in Denver tomorrow, can you make sure all the snow stays down in "The Springs?":2thumbs:

 

Thanks again,

Chris

[gretchen/jason]

For Mikejtr the fan does pull air through the rad ive made sure of that . Its like this old guy told me . You can cool off say 2 gallons of watter but it will get hotter faster , or cool off 4 gallons of watter and it will heat up slower .

 

Nope no heater hoses i dont even have heat in my z havent had heat for 2 years i get enough heat from the engine bay through the fire wall to not need a heater . Its not alot of heat but just enough to be ok with a jacket on . Must seem strange someone driving with no heat when it only 22 degrees outside .

 

Therefore i tried a bigger rad which of course holds more watter kinda like trying to boil say 4 gallons verses 8 gallons which boils faster usually the least amount of watter does . Not thatthe engine doesnt heat it up and the block holds only so much watter yes but the rad keeps more cooler watter in it then the thin one as the block doesnt hold as much watter as the rad does .

 

or at least that is how it was explained to me not sure but it worked .I hope i didnt sound rude i wasnt trying to be .

 

Oh and for teekass i hate snow so if it snows i hope it snows someplace other then my house . Have fun in Denver man

 

Jason

[MikeJTR]

Nope no heater hoses

Jason

 

Did you block the heater hose fittings on the engine, or did you loop the hose from one fitting to the other?

[gretchen/jason]

For Mikejtr

 

I have them blocked off no looped hose . I thought of a looped hose but decided not to , and a local speed shop said it didnt make much of a difference either way .

[MikeJTR]

 

Hey Mike' date='

 

I mean this as a sincere question, not confrontational.....Wouldn't the fan direction and heater core useage be irrelevant if he did ran the setups the same way with both radiators?

 

Chris[/quote']

 

If the heater hoses are looped onto the engine, the coolant can "short circuit" the radiator. Instead of the coolant going through the radiator, it bypasses the radiator, and goes through the heater hoses.

 

The myth that water goes through the radiator too fast to cool is just a myth. The faster coolant moves through the radiator, the better the heat transfer, unless the coolant is foaming, which is why it is necessary to remove all air from the coolant that goes through the engine and radiator.

 

1990 and newer Corvettes use de-aereation tanks that separate air from the coolant. They also use heater hose restrictors to force more coolant through the radiator.

 

On the S-10 Truck V8 swap, I had cooling difficulties that were solved by installing a heater hose restrictor. It wasn't until I looked at the heater hose fittings on the V6 S-10 (which had restricted fittings), that I began to understand why the truck did not run as cool as it should have. A simple way to determine if a heater hose restrictor will help is to put a needle nose vice-grip on the heater hose and see if the engine runs cooler.

 

The Datsun Z heater core control valve restricts coolant, but if the heater core is not being used, bypassing the heater core can cause cooling problems.

[gretchen/jason]

I once tried a " restrictor " in my hoses . I tried on the inlet and outlet hoses using a craftsman socket with a 3/8 drive hole it really didnt make any difference that i could tell .

 

I also tried a larger water pump pulley that helped it run about 8 degrees cooler , i tried this as my cruising speed at 65-70 mph runs me at about 4,000 rpms that is when i run into problems . Anything i did under say 3,000 rpms kept the engine at a fair tempature range .

 

Granted i do have the problem somewhat fixed , my next step is to try a electric water pump , it seems the slower my water ran through the rad the better it cooled it .

 

I cant explain why the JTR rad doesnt work for my z as where the other one did .

 

So if i ever decide to put a heater in my z and hook up heater hoses will it change the water flow any ? . I must mention i have no heater core no heater valve all stock componets even the dash are gone .

 

I know this doesnt pertain to a z but i know a guy with a 37 ford coupe 454 big block and he has 3 radiators . 1 rad in the stock position and then one under each wheel well behind the tires they are about oh 12 tall 14 wide with fans but it keeps his ride cool .

 

Jason

[MikeJTR]

I also tried a larger water pump pulley that helped it run about 8 degrees cooler , i tried this as my cruising speed at 65-70 mph runs me at about 4,000 rpms that is when i run into problems . Anything i did under say 3,000 rpms kept the engine at a fair tempature range .

Jason

 

Improved cooling by reducing the water pump speed indicates that you have a coolant foaming problem.

 

You need to get all of the air out of the cooling system, as well as any chemicals that can cause foaming.

 

You should probably flush your cooling system and add

an additive like Redline Water Wetter, which reduces foaming.