240 260 or 280

[cygnusx1]

Its chilly here today so I want to light a fire. Hopefully not a flame war. It is well known that the 280Z shell is heavier and stiffer than a 240Z shell. Why do more people seem to hybridz with the 240 shell. I mean once you start with the lighter 240Z shell and add some stiffening, you are probably approaching the weight and stiffness of the 280Z shell. Aren't you? The 280Z's are a bit easier to find and might be less rusty. Of course this assumes that both cars are going to be stripped and the "fat" left off of the 280Z such as the bumpers, the insulation, the A/C and all the other fattening in the 280Z.

 

Room for civil discussion.

[Guest TeamNissan]

I personaly like the 240more because its older and is basicly the truest sportscar nissan has ever put out. Its the z that started it all for us today. I mean going by a strict just to hook up and race stand point sure a 280 but to work on and to love 240 all the way lol.

[Pop N Wood]

The number of 240's made is very small compared to the number of 280's. The ones that are left are getting harder and harder to find for sale. It won't be too much longer before this is no longer a question anyone needs to ask.

 

There have been a number of times I wished I had started my hybrid conversion with a 280 rather than my 70 240. It is supprising how much beefier the 280's are than the 240's. After having worked on my 240 for almost 20 years now, I was suprised the first time I pulled parts off a 280. The most obvious thing is the rails underneath the floor pans. The 240's had to run the brake and fuel lines through the tunnel cause the 240 rails would have given them absolutely zero protection.

 

The rest of the differences are hard to notice unless you are familiar with both models. Some of the key differences I have noticed are the stronger steering rack mounts, thicker strut tubes, stronger stub axles, significantly stronger diff cross member, a revised front diff top strap, relocated diff geometry, thicker steel in the rear control arms, much stronger door latches, stronger trans mount ears. Then there is god only knows how much more sheet metal bracing throughout the later cars.

 

You have to figure Datsun changed all of these things to address some perceived deficency in the original 240. Most of them appear safety related.

 

Then there are other little things that make a V8 swap different between the two models. Most noticeable is the FI tank vs. carb'd 240 tank. I have recently found out the shifter opening on the early 240's is farther back than all later models. 240's have ampmeters, everything else has voltmeters. The 240 tach is not compatible with modern ignitions.

 

Little things, but stuff that has to be addressed.

[Guest TeamNissan]

All valid points but The post wasnt about safety or which is better for a v8 swap lol.

 

Thier modifications to the 240 were mostly for gov standards not for deficencies in thier own design.

 

In my opinion though if you were to start out with a 240 shell and a 280 shell both to build for racing you would have to brace them both anyway and the 280 will still be the heavier of the 2.

 

Also this will ALWAYS be a question that will be asked. When I'm dead and my kids driving my z while everyone else has flying cars there will be a forum and this topic will be on it lol.

[cygnusx1]

...this will ALWAYS be a question that will be asked. When I'm dead and my kids driving my z while everyone else has flying cars there will be a forum and this topic will be on it lol.

ROFL!

Some good info up there Pop N

 

We may need to move from the wind tunnel to the chassis stiffness testing jig some day. Adding a 240, 260 and 280 to the test. Then we can figure out how much additional weight it takes to make a 240 as stiff/strong as a 280. It may not even be an issue...but than again, it might.

[Pop N Wood]

Thier modifications to the 240 were mostly for gov standards not for deficencies in thier own design.

 

I absolutely disagree with that statement. Look at the differences in the steering rack mounts on the early to late Z cars. I have read posts warning mounts. This wasn't 5 mph bumper related. This was a deficiency of the early design.

[EMWHYR0HEN]

It is well known that the 280Z shell is heavier and stiffer than a 240Z shell. Why do more people seem to hybridz with the 240 shell. quote]

 

Weight and chassis stiffness aren't the only things that set the early and late model s30's apart. It's more complicated than that.

 

The first and biggest reason why I chose the 240 over the 280 is SMOG and emissions regulation ( I live in CA) Lets face it we're all hybrid z'ers and i'm sure we all mod or plan to mod our cars. Ive been busted for that stuff before and It's a waste of time and money going through all the legal crap.

Also, looking at the two cars inside and out I found the 240 more apealing and elegant because it had more of a sporty classic look. I think this is the biggest reason why the 240 is most sought after than the 260 and 280.

 

The 240 is in fact lighter than the 280. Although the 280 does have a stiffer chassis which is ideal for auto x, road racing, and those kinds of applications, I would much rather start with a lighter foundation and make the decisions on where the cars needs stiffening that are most important.

Also, there are some here on hybrid that build their cars specifically for drag racing. In that case a lighter car would be preferable.

[DavyZ]

...The first and biggest reason why I chose the 240 over the 280 is SMOG and emissions regulation ( I live in CA)

 

Same here. Most CA guys will do this as will most guys in states where the emissions issue is a concern.

 

The 240 is in fact lighter than the 280.

 

Another great reason why we like the 240Z as well. Tinny is light, tinny good, but tinny flexes too

 

Davy

[RTz]

'74 1/2 260....

 

All the 280 'features', with none of the EPA hassles

[Guest TeamNissan]

You know I like the 260, I'm shocked it gets so little respect.

[cygnusx1]

Very good point about the emissions legalities. Here in NY the 76Z was the last non-cat model. It had no emissions controls asides from internal fuel mapping and the BCDD valve. Not even EGR.

[Guest Mike]

We may need to move from the wind tunnel to the chassis stiffness testing jig some day. Adding a 240, 260 and 280 to the test. Then we can figure out how much additional weight it takes to make a 240 as stiff/strong as a 280. It may not even be an issue...but than again, it might.

 

I SECOND THAT MOTION!!!

[strotter]

If I were doing it again, I'd go with a 280 rather than another 240, despite the fact that I live in California. In particular, I'd look for a '75. Why? Smog-inspection exemption for that year, right, but more importantly parts availability. There were a *lot* more 280's sold than 240's, and it shows in the junk yards. I actually ended up using a lot of 280 parts in my 240, including most of the interior and quite a bit of wiring plus lots and lots of little stuff that'd cost a fortune new. Bumpers, after all, can be replaced.

 

And a street car *needs* to be a bit beefier. Take the interior parts I mentioned above. 240 plastic panels are virtually paper-thin, the 280's are possibly twice as thick. How many hours did I spend trying to salvage the originals, then how many more did I spend swapping in the 280 parts? Lots. And the 3-point belts - my 240 didn't have 'em, ended up assembling something-or-other that'd fit; the 280 had 'em built in. Suspension replacement parts - poly kits - are designed for the 280, but are sold for 240s, and there are a couple of differences that make life hard. Or fender panels: I'm pretty sure they're a heavier gauge in the later models, important to me because I tend to lean on the fender when I'm working in the engine compartment, and have managed to oilcan the top of mine a bit. And A/C - 280's had it, 240's didn't. It ends up that there are lots of little differences that just make life easier, from the mechanic-ing perspective. After having driven a 350-based Z swap, I can honestly say I'd trade a bit of weight for the "livability" the later model has to offer. Heck, my just going on a diet would make up the difference in weight between the two models, sans bumpers of course.

[bobbyc]

i like the taillights better on the 240

[phiz]

'74 1/2 260....

 

All the 280 'features', with none of the EPA hassles

 

Pre-'741/2 260....

 

All of the 240 "features", without those gawd-awful bumpers...lol:mrgreen:

[MrFancypants]

You know I like the 260, I'm shocked it gets so little respect.

 

260 FTW!

 

Rare than 240s, sturdier like 280s... the decision seems obvious

 

 

 

- Greg -

[Guest Mike]

There's a difference between the earlier 260's and the later ones. For one thing the later ones had the bigger 280 style bumpers. I think some interior stuff changed and they may have all (or some of) the early 280 body, steering and suspension changes too. The earlier 260's were basically just like the 240's in just about every respect other than the 2.6 liter engine... and the government mandated crap that went with it.

[RTz]

All of the 240 "features", without those gawd-awful bumpers...lol:mrgreen: [/b]

 

Easy fix

[RTz]

Mike,

 

Don't forget '74 1/2's had the larger tranny tunnel for sneaking the exhaust up a little higher after installing a T56, and the lower core support being lower for getting a little more radiator up there.

[Guest Mike]

Thanks Ron!!