JMortensen Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 I've been searching and seen the super wazoo cupronickel brake lines and also the AN fitting suggestions. But I'm on a budget. For brakes I have Tilton masters and Wilwood calipers. The master cylinders come with both AN and bubble flare fittings, so I can use either. I believe my proportioning valve has bubble fittings, and I think the calipers said that they have 3/16 bubble flares ends on them. I know the AN's are superior as far as ease of installation and sealing, and I think they are also easier to find/make stainless hoses for the wheel ends for. Seems like kind of a hassle to have to do 1/2 and 1/2. For the fuel lines the fuel cell I have comes with AN fittings for the breather and pickup. I honestly do not know how one goes about attaching a regular rubber line to that fitting, other than to attach a hard line to it and then do a bubble flare and attach a rubber hose to that. I'd love to have all stainless hoses, but it seems like an expensive option and I don't know how to cut make the tubes and attach the ends. Also the Mikunis that I'm running don't have AN fittings, so I guess I would have to either purchase AN banjo fittings or somehow modify what I have to work with them. I've seen them Mikunis with stainless hose before, but I'm not sure what all is needed to get that done. I've done a decent amount of automotive plumbing in my day, but it's always been typical rubber hoses or hard lines for fuel and bubble flares and stock replacement stainless lines for the wheel end of things. Also, I've ended up modifying/removing some of the pieces that stick off of the frame to anchor the hard lines where they attach to a soft line (don't know what that connection thingy is called). I was thinking of attaching the soft line to the hard line, then screwing a rubber insulated D ring to the frame AFTER the connector, so that the flexible part was able to do its thing without flexing the hard line. Anyone have a better solution than that for me? Suggestions on suppliers, tools, methods, etc will be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFancypants Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Do you have a Granberry Supply over there? That's where Ive bought all my fittings and hose (including SS teflon) in the past. They can build custom hoses (crimp the ends on, pressure test) to your specs too. Im sure they could do something in hard line, even reflare existing hard line for new fittings. Looks like Im going to have to do that since half my stock brake lines are cheesed. You can also buy reusable fittings and hose from places like Pegasus, but Im not sure if I'd want to trust brake pressures with those. I've used that stuff for oil lines, though. As for fuel, I've bought some really cool hose fittings at Granberry that are basically a flare end for regular 3/8" hose with a swivel AN fitting on the other end. You just use regular fuel hose with them and they are very clean and seal great. - Greg - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 I ditched all of the original hard lines so I'm starting from scratch. I've never heard of Granberry Supply, but I'll check for that and see what I can find. Sounds like that adapter piece is what I need to do the AN to rubber hose. Thanks for the tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vashonz Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Theres this hydraulics and diesel supply place on the tide flats in Tacoma, between I5 and 509, they have all kinds of hydraulic stuff. They built the lines I am using for the stock 280zxt oil cooler in my 240z. I can't remember the name of it right now. If you need it I have a pretty decent flare tool, it has the mandrel to do double flares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vashonz Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Just got it Williams Oil Filter Services 1247 Puyallup Ave Tacoma, WA 98421 (253) 627-8163 Before I got the name I found it on google earth. coordinants are : 47°14'33.28"N 122°24'52.93"W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 I have a regular flare tool, thanks. I also found an AN flare tool for $50, so that might not be so far out of reach. Previously I had thought the tool ran $150 or something. Thanks for the lead on the fittings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Why not stick with the standard metric double flare fittings for the brake stuff? I think you only want to go to AN fitting if you plan on doing a lot of disassembly. For fuel, they make connectors that go from AN to just about anything else. They make AN connectors that hook directly to braided 3/8 or 1/2 inch fuel hose. Go to Jegs or Summit and look at either their store brand or Russel. I have bought a bunch that I have yet to hook up, but they look really simple to do. You simply slide the hose onto a barb on the connector then wrench down an outer fitting. AN connectors are a bit of a PITA for fuel system, because it seems like every fuel part has 3/8 NPT fittings. That mean all the connectors are a inch longer because you have to use a 3/8 NPT to male AN adaptor. Under hood I will be using ann AN stuff and braided hose, but back at the FP and filter I plan using barbed fitting and black rubber hoses with standard clamps. Going to a hydraulics shop for crimped fittings is good way to go, but I managed to get an entire fuel system using Russel connectors, and everything will wrench together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 Why not stick with the standard metric double flare fittings for the brake stuff? I think you only want to go to AN fitting if you plan on doing a lot of disassembly. Because there isn't anything left of the original braking system, so that means there are no metric double flares left in the whole system. The double flares I do have are standard double flares. Plus I know the AN flares are much easier to do and less likely to leak, which makes me want to give that a go. I don't have the hard lines anymore, because I knew there would be enough re-routing going on that I just threw them away. AN connectors are a bit of a PITA for fuel system, because it seems like every fuel part has 3/8 NPT fittings. That mean all the connectors are a inch longer because you have to use a 3/8 NPT to male AN adaptor. Under hood I will be using ann AN stuff and braided hose, but back at the FP and filter I plan using barbed fitting and black rubber hoses with standard clamps. Sounds like this is really what I need to do for the fuel system; just get the AN to barb fitting and use rubber hose. The fuel system should be easy to seal, unlike the brakes. Found this: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=RUS%2D670300&N=700+400081+115&autoview=sku I did find this for the brakes, which I think looks pretty good but has all double flare fittings. I'm still hemming and hawing on the double flares for the brakes. The same place has a AN flare tool for $55... http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/999,,_Complete-Steel-Brake-Line-Kit-Includes-Braided-Hose.html?itemNo=BRAKE+LINE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFancypants Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Found this: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=RUS%2D670300&N=700+400081+115&autoview=sku Dont get those.. they arent swivel fittings. If you want I can source the fittings from my local Granberry. Just let me know how many you need and what hose/AN size for each. I can take a pic of the fittings I have if you like. They are brass. - Greg - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 I'd appreciate seeing a picture, thanks. Why would I need a swivel fitting for fuel though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFancypants Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 I'd appreciate seeing a picture, thanks. Why would I need a swivel fitting for fuel though? Guess you like your hoses twisting when you tighten them? - Greg - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 Sorry if I'm being dense, but I'm still not getting it. Screw the fitting into the fuel cell, then push the hose onto the barb. No twisting of the hose, right? I'm not likely to take these hoses on and off very many times... In thinking about it I believe my fuel cell has male ends, so I think I'd need this fitting: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=AER%2DFBM1512&N=700+115&autoview=sku Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFancypants Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Sorry if I'm being dense, but I'm still not getting it. Screw the fitting into the fuel cell, then push the hose onto the barb. No twisting of the hose, right? I'm not likely to take these hoses on and off very many times... In thinking about it I believe my fuel cell has male ends, so I think I'd need this fitting: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=AER%2DFBM1512&N=700+115&autoview=sku The hoses are not easy to get onto the barbs. You will want to push them on off the car and then install them. They dont require clamps and fit extremely tight. Then when you go to install, the hose will twist if the fitting is not a swivel. It also helps greatly during removal. That fitting at Summit looks like a swivel, very similar to the one I am talking about except in anodized aluminum. I think you'll like the price of the brass ones a lot better - less than half of the one youre looking at. I would recommend using -5 or -6 AN fittings on 5/16 or 3/8 hose, then use adapters on all of your fuel regulators, filters, etc. to go to the right AN size. - Greg - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 I gotcha. We're talking about different types of fuel hose then. I was thinking auto parts store rubber fuel line. It's just a carbureted engine so I don't think I need any fancy hoses. I've used some hose like you're describing when fixing a forklift about 5 or 6 years ago. You pushed it onto the barb and that was it. Is there a problem with using regular hose on those fittings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFancypants Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Possibly not, but I would just use reinfoced rubber EFI hose since youre replacing it anyway. Also, then if you go high pressure in the future you dont have to redo it all Ive found Goodyear hose to be really good. - Greg - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 OK great. Thanks for all the back and forth on this one. I appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 I threw away most of my hardline also. I then bought a mix of metric and SAE fittings that all work with standard 3/16 inch hardline using a standard SAE flare wrench. This way I can use metric fittings on all the hardline that mates with stock Datsun stuff and standard fittings on the prop valves and Tilton MC's. I did go with the super fly wazoo 90-10 cuperous nickle line, but only because it is suppose to be easier to work with. The fittings obviously will work with any 3/16 hardline. For fuel I was talking about fittings like this http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=RUS%2D610020&N=700+400081+115&autoview=sku The fit onto 3/8 inch braided rubber hose, yet give you the nice slip fitting for your fuel cell's AN attachments. When you go to hook the other end to the fuel filter/pump/regulator, then you have a choice of using another AN hose fitting, or getting a standard (cheap) 3/8 NPT hose barb and using hose clamps. Summit sells the braided hose that is suppose to work with their brand of AN fittings in various lengths at a reasonable price. The straight fittings are reasonably priced ($5), but the 90 and 45 degree fittings can get expensive ($15) in any quantity. They also sell AN to hard line compression fittings. So from my tank to the hard lines I will have rubber hose and clamps, but from the hard line forward it will all be AN stuff. I will be running a carb with return style regulator under the hood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFancypants Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 The braided rubber stuff is quite nice, but is by no means cheap. Here's a couple pics of the fittings Im talking about: 1. 5/16 to -5 AN swivel fitting (brass) - under $2 EA 2. An installed hose between a fuel rail and AFPR The other fittings are -6 ORB to -5 AN in the rail and AFPR, then 45 and 90 deg -5 adapters. They are all steel which is much cheaper than anodized aluminum. All depends how much bling you want I guess. - Greg - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Well... For a budget.... Running hardline will double the number of fittings you must purchase... Running a long hose is usually less expensive if you stick with the cheap hose... Cheap hose may end up costing you more in the long run... It will wear out... especially if it is exposed to heat and the elements... but it can get you on the road for a few seasons before it will need to be replaced... That said.. I recently saw a car plumbed with hardlines and the most expensive hose and fittings known to man... (3/8" hose to the tune of $36 per foot)... If you plan on going with autoparts store rubber hose and barbed fittings... You should get high quality fuel injection grade clamps... Hose clamps tend to extrude the hose over repeated cycles of heating and cooling... they will gradually loosen no matter how tight you screw them down initially... in fact, you should only tighten them enough to seal the first time... overtightening the hose clamps can make the hose extrude faster and in a more leak prone manner.... I would use only crimped-on hose fittings in places where I could not easily reach for repairs... Crimped fitting are superior to all of the other fittings available... Crimping sleeves provide optimum clamping force under all conditions and allow expansion and contraction of the hose materials without extrusion... BMW uses a cheap verison of this type of crimped clamp for use on normal rubber hose and fittings... Hardline has MANY advantages... but it adds cost and complexity... hose shielding/insulation/sheathing can extend the useful life of any hose... especially if it is exposed to heat, elements, bending, or abrasion... but it can add a great deal of cost... I would advise against running fuel hoses through the interior... many people do this... but in an accident there is great risk of fuel lines getting severed where they enter/exit the chassis... possibly spraying the driver and interior with fuel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Jon, I used a bunch of those brass fittings the MrFancyPants is talking about for plumbing the fuel system on my Z. As he says they are very hard to push into the correct size hose and will not pull loose. It's recommended that you lube them with a small amount of oil when inserting them. The high pressure hose is not much more expensive than conventional rubber fuel line and if you plan to swap in an LS1 later it's worth it to do it right the first time. I used a combination of 3/8" stainless hard line I found at NAPA that is double flaired and the high pressure rubber with those brass fittings. The hard line was a bit of a pain to work with but once in place can be ignored. I think I spent a little over $100.00 for all the parts of my fuel line but thats because I bought extra parts and did the fuelatank end twice. Wheelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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