stony Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 Ok here’s the deal. My chassis builder really wants to see me in the low 8s especially since his name will be in the window. He suggested I go methanol, He runs it on a Blown big block pro mod. My question goes out to anyone that has extensive experience with it. How hard is it to tune? I understand the concept of doubling the fuel no issues with that, BUT the way I understand it burns ALOT cooler and is almost impossible to detonate. Here are my questions. With a turbo inline 6 (RB26) that is already very laggy wont a cooler exhaust ( or is it actually cooler) create even more lag. We talked about N20 but the classes I want to race in only allow 1 power adder. Will I actually gain power with the same boost settings after tuned? I have a ton of questions but I think once everyone starts chiming in most will get answered. I did search for it but all I could find was bits and pieces on water/alcohol as an additional injector. I'm talking straight up methanol injection out of the tank to the engine thru 1600CC injectors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted April 14, 2007 Author Share Posted April 14, 2007 Anyone have any good links to info on the net. Again not addition water or alcohol injection but, Methanol as a primary fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spork Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 I've been considering this myself actually and been doing a lot of research into it. If you follow any of the profession import racing, you may know of Stephane Beauregard with the shelby charger running in one of the FWD classes making some very low 8 second passes and I believe a few high 7's if memory serves me correctly. He's running straight meth and there are a lot of addvantages to it. Much cooler intake charge, in fact some cars aren't even running intercoolers because of it. You can loose a lot of weight by not running a air to water cooler, tank, and pump on a car, and many are finding that it's no longer needed like it is for gasoline. As far as power at the same boost level, you're more likely to make more power actually from the way I understand it. You'll have such a drop in intake temps that you'll be getting much denser charge. I can't comment on the spoolup, but if it's an issue,it may be time for a different turbo combo. As for the 1600cc injectors, what power do you figure on making to make the low 8 second passes. The reason I ask is that stephane has found that his 2 banks of injectors (8 1600cc injectors) is making him run leaner than he'd like under full boost as he was approaching that 7 second pass. If he hasn't already added a 3rd bank, I'm pretty sure he was going to. Just something to think about as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted April 18, 2007 Author Share Posted April 18, 2007 On my current budget I seriously don’t think that low 8s will be possible. I just want to get into the 8s. An 8.99 will make me happy. Actually a freakin running car will make me extremely happy. Baby steps:-x At any rate breaking into the 8s and breaking into the 7s are 2 different monsters. All the math I have done on the Meth one bank of 1600cc injectors pumping meth should easily handle 800 hp. According to all the formulas that should net me mid 8s BUT it’s just a calc... And OBTW did I say I would be extremely happy to just have a car that ran at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody 82 ZXT Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Ok here’s the deal. My chassis builder really wants to see me in the low 8s especially since his name will be in the window. I was thinking after I first read this that he just needs to finish your car and not tell you what kind of times you need to run! Actually a freakin running car will make me extremely happy. Baby steps:-x And OBTW did I say I would be extremely happy to just have a car that ran at this point. Wow, You've really earned some kind of medal for having waited this long on the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayZee Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Send BernardD a email, he has done alot of work with Methanol and tuning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
510six Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I Run methanol as a secondary fuel using the secondary injector control to add octain and cool the intake charge using two 1600cc Bosch motorsport injectors and AEM EMS. I also use Klotz Uplon to reduce the corrosive properties of methanol,the stuff works. http://www.daytonaexoticcars.com/popup/KL-107.pdf This chart explained the ratio using methanol as a primary fuel. http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/wblambda.htm I am planning on converting my fuel system to run E85 ethanol as a primary fuel and adding methanol as boost comes up.This should allow for more timing due to cooler intake temps and increased octain.I am just waiting for E85 to be avalable in my area .My dattalogs have shown a temperature reduction from 140* to under 60* using methanol under boost. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2071134 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONGO510 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I believe you must be very careful not to get to lean as alky will burn pistons in a heartbeat. BTDT! My experiance was in karts so it may not apply. I burned down engines all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett76Zt Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Its not my primary fuel, but I inject methanol at about 20% of my total fuel. Anyways, I've done a good amount of research on methanol. We all know its a higher octane, that it has great cooling properties and that its stoich is about half of what gasoline is. But what i didnt know was that it actually ends up producing more energy than gasoline. Acording to this article Methanol is approx. 9500 btu's/lb as opposed to gasoline at 18,400. But since you run over double the amount of meth as you do gasoline it produces more total btu's of energy than gasoline. In my experience and that of other friends of mine, the more methanol you use the more power it makes, even if you maintain the same air/fuel ratio. This article breaks it down: http://www.smokemup.com/tech/fuels.php Also VP fuels is now producing an oxygenated version of their Methanol called "M3". I've gone through about 2-3 gallons so far and while I havent confirmed at the dyno yet, it seems to be making even more power (higher trap speeds) than regular methanol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted April 19, 2007 Author Share Posted April 19, 2007 Hey guys I have been down that road.... not to be a hard ass or nothing but I'm looking for info on Pros and Cons of straight methanol as a primary fuel not an additional fuel. More specifically engine maintenance, oil change intervals, Basically im trying to figure out if running meth with be cost effective for me. Meth is $2.XX a gallon vs 106 which is 0ver 9 bux a gallon. Methanol fuel system ( mech) is less expensive to build with less parts, Stuff like that. anyways there you go Stony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 For 800hp, straight meth isn't needed. The problem with straight methanol is mainly in the oiling department. You will need to add some top end lub as well as change the oil every event. Your fuel system will also need to have all of the aluminum conponents hard annodized. The fuel pump that you are going to have to run will cost $600-1000 (Weldon, Magnafuel, ect). Personally I would start out on gas and go from there. Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett76Zt Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Will I actually gain power with the same boost settings after tuned? My post was in reply to this question. Also last I checked Methanol has gone up to around $4 a gallon, which is still totaly worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
510six Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 "I'm talking straight up methanol injection out of the tank to the engine thru 1600CC injectors" I am running strait up methanol from the tank using 1600cc fuel injectors, the system has it`s own fuel cell , pump and regulator just like any other EFI system.And yes I am getting more power with the same boost setting due to the reduction in intake temps and the methanol doesn`t seem to be any laggier than gasoline and thats with 40% of my total fuel as methanol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted April 20, 2007 Author Share Posted April 20, 2007 So your not running methanol as your primary fuel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
510six Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 No, crappy 91 octain California gas is the primary fuel.The methanol is added as 35% of my total fuel begining at 4psi of boost and ramping up to 40% at boost levels past 10psi.All I was saying is I am using 1600cc fuel injectors to add the methanol and an EFI fuel pump and regulator that are methanol compatable.If your EFI system will allow you could run 8 fuel injectors 6 at the primary fuel rail and two upstream to act as a chemical intercooler.My Methanol system is a copy of one that AEM engineers have been working on that allows the intercooler to be removed as the methanol injectors facing upstream cool the intake charge better than an air/air intercooler.I can PM you my dattalogs if you would like...it`s a pretty dramatic reduction in intake temps.With methanol as the primary fuel as well I would expect an even greater reduction in intake temps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted April 20, 2007 Author Share Posted April 20, 2007 yea please i'd like to take a look clint.stoneham@elmendorf.af.mil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 A local Supra guy just tuned his car on E85 + a little meth injection on a STOCK long block 2jzgte w/ a gt4276: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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