steal my nametag Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 grumpy i appreciate your help, immensly, a friend of mine who has very few NA builds under his belt and more force fed builds than i care to count and i designed the project to be something different. the original idea was a twin turbo 383 that would have a wide boost range for streetable use, that you could crank the boost back up and put down serious time slips... i'm starting to question the build happening at all, i'm losing interest in the whole concept of the project, mainly because the ideals i had starting it have slipped into obscurity. i've never built a nitroused block, but i'll admit they've always fascinated me... are they difficult to wire, and plumb? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 "are they difficult to wire, and plumb?" no,NOT really more good info http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/nitrous-tech.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steal my nametag Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 to each his own -shrug- he was asking about turbo kits, and i was trying to help with the information i've got. i've done some really great small block chevy builds, all of which were NA, but if someone wants to build turbo and sc engines by all means more power to them. my buisness partner spent most of his time building MR2s both sc and turbo, i've seen them put down some serious numbers too. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steal my nametag Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 thanks grumpy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Sorry if the conversatio has moved on but what benefit do you have with both? If you don't want turbo lag then put a supercharger on it period. In my mind turbos are more efficient because they have less parasitic loss so that's why I say get rid of the s/c. I just don't see the benefit of both. If you had either one setup optimally it should be better or at best the same. How much boost do you want to run? you DON,T NEED OR WANT turbos or a supercharger, its adds a great deal to the cost and you only need the increased hp on tap occasionally.what you NEED is a correctly assembled combo of engine and gearing trans and suspension,that takes full advantage of a nitrous kit WHEN you need it Grumpy, you think a nitrous system is superior to forced induction? Could you elaborate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steal my nametag Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 i was actually waiting for your response haha, the twin charge has alot to offer for those not wanting to run nitrous. you can put a clutch on the pulley so when the turbos hit full spool the sc cuts out leaving an open gap for the turbo's compressed air to flow through. VW did this succesfully in a factory car!! you use a relatively small sc for serious low end umph then larger turbos so you have a high top end power. the concept if designed right basicly gives you the opportunity to have a full powerband that's bumped up incredibly. there's alot of research to be done, on my part, and if you're interested i'll post links or PM links as i pull it together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNeedForZ Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Grumpy, you think a nitrous system is superior to forced induction? Could you elaborate? I am not Grumpy, but having seen the David Vizard's nitrous book, I'll throw in what I've learned, but I won't say nitrous is "superior" to anything....using nitrous is like having boost ON TAP. you can have as much torque as you want at any rpm. It does away with intercooler since the nitrous is cool, it never received any work but rather absorbs heat from its surrounding. If n2o is injected in liquid form it's even colder. The injection can be staged to turn out any torque curve you want as long as you plan it beforehand. When used in a turbo engine, it complements the turbo very well : a small amount of nitrous injected at low rpm suddently boosts the amount of exhaust gas expelled. The extra exhaust spools up the turbine and creates turbo boost earlier. I'd say that nitrous + forced induction is superior to forced induction alone, but that's a given BTW, when I said "injection" it means nitrous and fuel, not nitrous alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steal my nametag Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 any idea where i could get that book you mentioned, the one by david vizard? i'm interested in buying it. grumpy turned me onto that other forum which sparked the intellectual inside me and i'd like to follow up on the nitrous concepts. thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steal my nametag Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 interesting where this board turned off isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNeedForZ Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 any idea where i could get that book you mentioned, the one by david vizard? IIRC the book is out of print since the one I bought from Amazon.com is already a used one. You can still buy it on Amazon.com only that it will be used. The name of the book is "nitrous-oxide injection." There are several nitrous books out there, pick up a few more if you are interested. I want to clarify on what I said earlier that, even though nitrous is injected cold, it still produce great amount of heat after combustion. The Vizard book also talks about how to deal with the extra heat and output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steal my nametag Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 thank you very much, i don't mind books bieng used either. i'm seriously contemplating the whole nitrous game i'm torn between a nitroused big block and a twincharged small block. you guys are all very friendly and helpful i'd like to thank all of you for that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 if you have the room and desire to run a big block ID point out that both the power and the price goes up but the strength of the components in the BBC is significantly greater at least if the correct components are used,that extra 100 LBS is all in EXTRA STEEL , BIGGER VALVES and LARGER PORTS AND stronger rotating COMPONENTS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steal my nametag Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 there's no way i'd stick a BBC in a z car, with my right foot i'd kill myself pretty quick... it'd be in the chevelle, after the chassis mods i'm doin' once she gets back up here 1000+ whp will be possible without losing the safety, speeds fun only gettin' one pass isn't... i've seen some great small block builds 350s running up to 800whp on all engine... until the guy revs it to far and loses the whole setup because he went cheap on his rods... what do you think grumpy, would a nitroused bbc be worth the money, or a well built force fed small block? either myself or my bud can do all the fab work on the charge piping, intercooler, etc. you've pointed out the whole horse power on demand thing which is a big deal for me... i like to be able to drive my cars as well as race them, thanks for your time and input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete84 Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 there's no way i'd stick a BBC in a z car, with my right foot i'd kill myself pretty quick... it'd be in the chevelle, after the chassis mods i'm doin' once she gets back up here 1000+ whp will be possible without losing the safety, speeds fun only gettin' one pass isn't... i've seen some great small block builds 350s running up to 800whp on all engine... until the guy revs it to far and loses the whole setup because he went cheap on his rods... what do you think grumpy, would a nitroused bbc be worth the money, or a well built force fed small block? either myself or my bud can do all the fab work on the charge piping, intercooler, etc. you've pointed out the whole horse power on demand thing which is a big deal for me... i like to be able to drive my cars as well as race them, thanks for your time and input. Just read your sig, '65 SS!! My dad is most nostalgic for his '64 SS, and he had a '69 GTO and '57 Bel Air, among others. Any pics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steal my nametag Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 haha wow that made feel old, even though i'm only a twenty haha, the impala started out as my old man's little toy. we tore into and found out it was a numbers matching engine and trans!! he ended up putting a factory replacement interior in it and now we alternate driving it daily. i've got a few pics i can take plenty more since she's just sittin' in the driveway right now haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 you can put a clutch on the pulley so when the turbos hit full spool the sc cuts out leaving an open gap for the turbo's compressed air to flow through.....if you're interested i'll post links or PM links as i pull it together. Ok, you've sold me on the theory behind it assuming you want to run a LOT of boost. Disengaging the supercharger is what was holding me up. I thought you were going to leave it going. What would happen if you were to run a centrifugal supercharger and Y the turbos in with it? I would think the boost might be easier to control just with a wastegate and that way you wouldn't have to worry about the spike in boost when the turbos and the s/c are both going. If the pressure of the supercharger wont allow the turbos to spool as normal I guess you could put some sort of check valve on it. Just an idea. Do you plan on running an intercooler? Please post links of progrees too (just in a seperate thread so we're not crashing this one anymore than we/I already have:icon11: ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS1 240Z Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 2 options... nitrous bottle, then you should beat cobras no problem second option is to get a Gen 3/4 motor and start there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Haha, yes because there's no way a good ol' 350 could whip em without spray or boost..... Dangit I've got to stop arguing in other people's threads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steal my nametag Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 noooooooooo i mean the first gen 350 truck engine that i built in the chevelle that ran against cobras couldn't possibly do the same in the datsun ^.- alright i get the feeling we should end up making an actual board devout to the discussion of the whole twin-charge setup, etc. what'ya think 280zwitha383? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 As you know already, with only 285hp at the wheels you aren't going to beat everything on the street. However, you still have a fast car for very little money. And that mild engine makes a nice driving street car. Installing a huge cam and 4.56 gears and a 4000 stall will make it much faster but at the expense of drivability and durability. Maybe some better cylinder heads (195 afr's) and a slightly bigger cam will get you into the 320 rwhp range (low 12 at 115). Then spray a little 125 shot of n20 for a true 420rwhp Z which should get your car into the mid 11's at around 125 mph. That should be enough to beat most cars and is at the limit for Z axles and half shafts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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