Apexi SAFC how to's? tips?

[ZR8ED]

My mechanic who installed my safc has gone the way of the dodo, and I have no one to help me operate this thing to get it tuned. I did some basic stuff last year, and got it running so I can cruise with it.

 

Soooo I've been searching the forums this morning looking for some tips on the apexi safc controller (I have the gen2)

 

I have it installed on my VG30ET with a slightly modded ecu (burned eprom) 370cc inj, big fuel pump, afpr, t3/t4 turbo big i/c etc etc.

 

I had to install a GM map sensor to give the unit a signal for low/high throttle settings, as my TPS was a two position on/off unit. It uses manifold pressure to determine my engine load thus my throttle position. ( i did not install this stuff).

 

Well I was able to figure out the high and low throttle position fuel mapping curve, but I don't know how to set up the rest of the unit. I don't really understand the other functions, and what I should set them approx for my setup. There are some menus with deceleration values, but I have no clue what they should be set at.

I don't want to spend all summer experimenting with values till I learn how they affect my driveablility, and then work on fine tuning.

 

 

I am searching for a mech that is familiar with these types of controllers, but so far I have had little luck, and those that have agreed to look at it, have not left me very confident that they understand them (i think they agreed to try and learn and experiment for me..$$$$)

 

Anyone have one working that could tell me some base value ideas for the various controls? or at least how they work?

 

Its no WOT for me until I can work some of this stuff out. I don't need any more engine melt downs 2 is enough. hehehe.

 

Thanks for any advice.

Scott

[ZR8ED]

 

Pic of the unit if it helps.

[proxlamus©]

Scott,

 

this is very interesting that your using an SAFC on the VG30ET..

 

I attempted to use one on my L28 and had terrible failure.

 

Search around the Honda and DSM forums about the SAFC as they have plenty of walk throughs..

 

Make sure the voltage for the MAF matches the SAFC's allowable inputs.. one reason my AFM didnt work with the SAFC. Maybe the VG's MAF (versus AFM) will work out

 

 

Why dont you mod the Z31 ECU?! seems a bit cheaper and easier to do!

[lifegrddude]

I used an S-AFC II for a while, but I used ballpark figures from an equation for my fuel. It was definitely on the rich side of things. Anyway, I think in order to use the unit properly, you have to have an ignition retard module as well. I used an MSD BTM with the SAFC and had it running well enough to get my Z down to a low 14 second 1/4 mile, but I'm sure I could have cracked 13's had I used a wideband to fine tune the fuel up top. Btw, this was on an '84 Z31T ecu on a 280zx. I now use an ecu tuned by Bernardd. The 240sx forums are where I got most of my info on the SAFC.

[ZR8ED]

Thanks for the pointer in the right direction.

 

I searched some honduh forums, and gleamed some info.

 

I searched some Z31 forums, but found lots of "hey I just got this Safc. How do I install it?" little to no tuning info, except lots of "go to the dyno"

 

What I did find, was that some of the 240sx forums are actually talking about their setups. Many use the z31 ecu, z32 maf, larger injectors and turbos. I found it quite close to my equipment.

 

They had lots of settings used. They do vary from car to car, and all strongly cautioned against just "plugging in someone else's numbers" but after seeing different setups, I could see trends.

 

For instance. the decel menu goes from 0 -100% in .1 increments. I heard many talk about using values in the .5% range. mine was at 15.5% big difference.

 

Anyways, I've taken the info, and will start to work on it.

 

I will post my settings when done. Maybe I will write a small faq if I figure it all out enough.

 

Now I just need the epoxy to dry on a part of the car, I can then go for a drive later today!

 

Thanks!

Scott.

 

PS. If anyone see's this thread and has some more thoughts, or have one setup in your car (any car) let me know what you think!

[nismopick]

Lifegrddude's SAFC install / settings write up: http://zdriver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17290

[ZR8ED]

Update.

 

I'm not doing well. Let me clarify that. I thought I was doing well. I had the car set up for cruising nicely. I just needed sometime riding shotgun with my buddy so I could program while he drove.

 

Until.... I did some work on my front signal light, and more importantly moved the control unit from inside my glove box to outside on the centre console. This was to make it easier to reach and do more tweaking.

 

Well I started the car up and it was running pig pig rich. My wideband was pegged at full rich.

 

WTF??!!!

 

well lots of checking wires, I even adjusted the FP and still pig rich, I even set the lo throttle 1000rpm ne point to -50. Still pig rich! I got ticked off and unhooked the whole damn thing. Pretty straight forward, and I left everything still there ready to hook back up.

 

Well I started the car, and well it started. I was able to adjust the fuel pressure, and leaned it up a bit. Took it for a spin, and at least it was drivable. still rich though. Rich to about 12psi, and then it gets lean.

 

Well I'm going to hook it all back up, write down my settings, and re initialize the SAFC and start over.

 

If this doesn't work?

 

I may get the ecu reburned. or maybe megasquirt, if I can find someone local familiar with it to help me out a bit.

 

I'm a bit PO'ed! right now, so I decided to quit before I break something. Back to it tommorow.

 

Scott.

[ZR8ED]

Update day two.

 

Reinstalled SAFC.

 

Start car.

 

Car runs fine.

 

????????????

 

Anyways, Not sure what happened, but I reset my fuel pressure and within 2 hours of rushing home to work on it, I was driving out to the other side of the city to make my Z club meeting!

 

I'm going to continue tuning this week if it doesn't rain.

 

The car performed beautifully on the highway, and I learned a few more things about how and what I need to adjust.

 

Life is back to being good.

 

Will keep you all posted on the progress. I haven't given up yet, though I am running out of patients.

 

Investigating MSII as my final option.

 

Cheers.

[proxlamus©]

Megasquirt and wideband are the two best purchases i've ever made for the Z.

 

Honestly.

[naviathan]

Hehehehe, shameless plug....I have an MS-II on the table right now about to go together. $375 plus shipping when it's complete...

[ZR8ED]

Update day 3-4

 

Took the car for a weekend car event. Lots of car talk, beer and bbq. Took the cars out for a 2 hour cruise which let me have some time to do more tuning.

 

I can run almost 10psi WOT now.

 

I tried to turn the fuel pressure up a bit more, and then compensate using the SAFC to lean out the low throttle settings. It would not work below NE-27. When I got to about NE-30 the idle dropped and the A/F ratio dropped to less than 11:1 at idle?!

 

So I can't just turn up the fuel pressure enough to get enough fuel for 12psi of boost without running stinking rich at idle? the NE values have setting range of -50% to +50%

 

More research at the apexi site says that if your car is not listed in the "works with" list, then do not use this safc.

 

Well that tears it. I'm going to play with it a bit more to get it smoothly running as is, and I think I will order the mega squirt. Even If I can get it working ok, I think It will never get any better than "ok"

 

I'm tired...

 

BTW had an awsome weekend, and the car was great for cruising.

 

1 used SAFC II for sale coming up.

[83 HKS L28ET]

what did you guys dial in for IN/OUT? 6IN 6 OUT?

 

Also the running rich might be from the maf not working well with s-afc... how bout chaning out the Maf for a vg30et or vg30dett maf? the in/out would change considerably as well.. this is only ideas.. ive done my share of s-afc insanity in the past with SR an 7m they both loved it .

[proxlamus©]

good call!

 

 

I made the same mistake.. then I went.. *cough* megasquirt *cough*

[83 HKS L28ET]

i have apex s-itc ignition timing controller ,an s-afc hopefully when i wire them up i can provide some insight into this... even though the cars systems are alil outdated it should still work with proper wiring an settings..

the itc letts me change the timing an certain rpms even at idle.

[ZR8ED]

Well I'm now officially out of the SAFC game.

 

I ordered a megasquirt package, and It will be here in a few days.

 

Here is what I know about the SAFC.

 

If the SAFC does not list your vehicle in its "designed to be used in" list, then it will be not an easy install.

 

The APEXi SAFC is not designed to work with the L28 or VG30. It does list the VG30's from the later Z32 cars.

 

I am running a complete z31 set up. MAF, modded ecu, big injectors, big turbo, big i/c, and big exhaust.

 

The TPS will not work with the SAFC. The SAFC needs to know throttle position, and our TPS is and on/off style.

 

I had a GM MAP sensor setup to act as my throttle position sensor.

 

The SAFC does not apparently like the stock Z31 MAF.

 

I did get the SAFC to work under boost, but could not get more than 7psi of boost without going lean. When I turned the fuel pressure up to compensate, I could not remove enough fuel in the low throttle positions to make the car driveable.

 

So If you want any tips or tricks for setting up an SAFC in a stockish l28 or Vg30 from the Z31's, this is my warning. Don't do it. I've wasted way too much time and $$ and effort. I have wasted more money than going standalone, messed with poor driveabiltiy for 2 summers, and been less than happy with the car.

 

I don't believe you can do this cheap enough on your own to make this a viable option for our Z's.

 

I hope someone will learn from my costly mistake.

 

Scott.

[ARZ_]

I skimmed quickly, so forgive me if I missed it, but you should NEVER EVER tune without a Wideband O2 sensor. You cant do anything but GUESS whether your lean or rich at a particular (RPM, load, boost, throttle position). Using an SAFC to tune without using a WB is a sure way to burn down your motor.

 

GET a Wideband asap, you will need it for your mega squirt also.

 

BTW lots of Toyota Supra and MR2 guys (also Mitsubishi eclipse guys) use these to tune, look for one of their forum sites and post them for sale in their classifieds sections.

 

BTW how much are you asking for it?