Guest TeamNissan Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 TT is the natural choice no? 2tb 2 turbo etc... I think that would be quite nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TABrinn Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Someone correct me if I'm wrong but, the design of an intake has a bigger effect on a N/A motor than a boosted one. Therefore any gains from this setup could more easily be seen on the N/A engine. After that, yeah, twin turbo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsun 1/2 dozen SD Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 how much did it cost you to weld them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 Someone correct me if I'm wrong but, the design of an intake has a bigger effect on a N/A motor than a boosted one. Therefore any gains from this setup could more easily be seen on the N/A engine. After that, yeah, twin turbo! The twin TBs are really just for a different look on a twin turbo setup. This is what I am leaning towards. I'm going to start mocking things up. The biggest challenge will be the exhaust manifold. how much did it cost you to weld them There is a lot of other work besides just welding in there. It took a lot of time to machine both the EFI flange and the SU manifolds so that they joined squarely. The welding part took the least amount of time. The prep work took about 6-8 hours. The smoothing after the welding is also very time consuming. Cost? Find out what you local welding shop charges by the hour. I have a bartering relationship with a metal fabricator, so he does all my critical welding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 There is a lot of other work besides just welding in there. It took a lot of time to machine both the EFI flange and the SU manifolds so that they joined squarely. The welding part took the least amount of time. The prep work took about 6-8 hours. The smoothing after the welding is also very time consuming. Cost? Find out what you local welding shop charges by the hour. I have a bartering relationship with a metal fabricator, so he does all my critical welding. That was just what I wanted to hear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSM Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 So whats the latest update? Aside from Linkage, do you need to run the balance tube? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted May 9, 2008 Author Share Posted May 9, 2008 Yes, I am using the balance tube. Once so that the TB don't need to be precisely calibrated, and it also provides a place to mount the throttle shaft stantions. I have completed port matching the manifold to the head. I have also smoothed the inside of the manifold where the EFI manifold was grafted to the SU manifold. There were some bumps that needed to be smoothed out where the two manifolds were welded together. The plan as of today is to use this manifold setup on a 3.1L NA sleeper. I will be retrofitting a stock 240Z air filter to attach to the TBs. It should make people do a double take. The car it is going into is a 71 which will be setup as a nice street modified Z. It will look mildly modified, but it have all the goodies underneath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockerstar Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 Can't wait to see more! What kind of benefits would one see on this style set up vs a stock mani on a boosted motor? I'm building an l28et in the future and I still have the carb set ups off of 2 240's laying around How would one calibrate a set up like this with ms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 the runner diameter of the stock intake manifold is 38 mm. The intake valve diameter is something like 42-45 mm... or larger. You do the math, but keep in mind that doubling the diameter of a channel increases its cross-sectional area by (1/2 x Diameter)^2 x pi. I haven't personally mic'd the interior diameter of the SU manifold, but I know PLENTY of people that make plenty of power out of a pair of roundtops. Z-ya: my family and I were talking about your setup today. Poor Mom :- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 Can't wait to see more! What kind of benefits would one see on this style set up vs a stock mani on a boosted motor? I'm building an l28et in the future and I still have the carb set ups off of 2 240's laying around How would one calibrate a set up like this with ms? There will be a balance tube, and only one TB will have a TPS. So except for getting the two TBs butterflys set close, it should work like a single TB intake manifold. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Really, as long as you have a linkage with little or no play, the TPS can go just about anywhere in the system. Inside the car on the throttle pedal pivot point is nice and clean, and cool, and doesn't mean you have to open the hood to connect to it for troubleshooting. Only if your linkage breaks will it go kaflooey...and in that case you won't be moving anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted May 13, 2008 Author Share Posted May 13, 2008 Tony, The linkage is all stock Nissan, so there is very little play from TB to TB. Worst case would be 2 times the max play from a one TB stock Nissan setup. Slapping a TPS onto the side of one of the TB is a lot easier than rigging it up on the pedal (I just love getting under the dash in an S30). A 240SX TPS will bolt to the 280ZXT TB without any modifications. I actually was looking closely at using a set of SUs to use just as TBs, but there is no place to easily mount a TPS. I'm wondering if on MSII you can use manifold vacuum change for throttle enrichment (I know other ECUs can do this). Or, I could mount the TPS under the dash. Mmmmm, thinkin' stealth mode again.... I'm liking this idea! Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X64v Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 I'm wondering if on MSII you can use manifold vacuum change for throttle enrichment (I know other ECUs can do this). I know for a fact on MS-I with the MSnS-E code, you can. A few friends of mine had problems with the acceleration enrichment causing the engine to stumble for a sec because it saw a tps change that wasn't there. They switched to 100% map based accel (isn't Cygnusx1 running that, too?), so besides datalogging, their TPS sensors don't do a thing. So the SU/TB idea is a go Edit: Yes, Cygnusx1 is (or at least was) running full map-based accel enrich on his MSII. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted May 13, 2008 Author Share Posted May 13, 2008 I thought I had seen it in the "Extra" code, but wasn't sure. Nice to know it is in the MSII code as well since that is what I will be running on this setup. Running a shielded cable fro the TPS sensor can sometimes fix these TPS glitch problems. If you run straight wire for everything you can run into these kinds of problems. Yes, I think I am going to start screwing with the SUs as throttle bodies now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 If you go with SUs as throttle bodies, what will you be doing with the TBs you had prepped for this manifold? I have plenty of NA 280ZX TBs I can work with, and the junkyard is full of nissan throttle bodies... but since you already had these dressed for use in this position.... Personally, the appeal *I* find in this design is the ingenuity and differentiation. The concept of going "sleeper," with gutted carbs amuses me, but it doesn't feel like what *I* want, yanno? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted December 20, 2008 Author Share Posted December 20, 2008 I've decided to put this setup on the road racer this winter. I'll be posting updates. So far, it looks they will work out well. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 You now have the throttle plate equivalent cross sectional area of a Cosworth Vega (twin 50mm)... Just had to throw that in there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted December 20, 2008 Author Share Posted December 20, 2008 Not to jack my own thread, but a friend of mine has a Cosworth Vega with 41k miles on it. Motor was sleeved and had some mild head work done. Made almost 130WHP on a Dynpack: Dotted plot is before we took the cover off the air box.... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 envy, envy, envy, envy, and envy. Did I mention I was jealous? I was about a week away from finding this thread and bumping it for updates, I've thought about it half a dozen times in the last week.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 To contribute to Z-Ya's self-jacking...er... It makes you think when those crybabies in car 929 protested our little L20A powered 280Z 2+2, huh? That Cosworth engine and EFI combination is worth 345HP at 12,000 rpms if they have the ability to tune it properly. They went out and bumped the record (I guess because we lit the fire under their butt...) But that protest...bad form! I think the Cosworth Vega is the only engine I've seen with an Emission Control Device that is so pretty, the engine looks WORSE (if not less intimidating) with it off, than with it on... That being the A.I.R. Injection Tubes across the top of the head. Nice big chrome things that scream 'KILLER TECHNOLOGY! DON'T MESS WITH ME! LOOK AT MY CHROME!!!' LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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