z-ya Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 I've known for a couple years now that the 225lb springs on the track car were not cutting it. Lot's of compression in hard turns, and body roll to go along with it. The time trial I did in July blew three of the 4 Tokico Iluminas on the car. This made for a very exciting time trial event. I was still able to man handle it only 1 second slower than my all time best for that track configuration. Time for new shocks and springs. It is well known that the Iluminas are not good for spring rates much over 250lbs. So I need shocks that can handle the track, and the new 350lb springs that are ready to go in. This is a budget racer, so spending $300-$400 per corner on shocks is out of the question. In come the Tokico HTS shocks I got from John at Betamotorsports. Infinitely adjustable damping, and a very good price. According to John, they should be able to handle upwards of 400lb springs. This week I've put close to 400 track miles on the new setup. The car is so much flatter in the turns. It also turns better than it ever has. I've got the new shocks set in the middle, which seems pretty good. The car is much easier to break free through the chicanes and tight turns. I'm running Hoosier DOT slicks on it. In wide sweeping turns I can carry much more speed, and the car is more controlable. I meant to experiment with the shock adjustment on Thursday, but I had three students, each of which did 4 sessions. Just keeping my lunch down was a struggle. I'll keep everyone up to date on how the Tokico HTS shocks work out. So far, I really like them. Next track events are at the Convention in Daytona. I'm also bringing it to the track day at Sebring the day after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 Very cool news! I guess when I'm driving fast enough to blow out the illuminas I'll just upgrade. BTW are you using stock sized struts or shortened struts? Sounds great! Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAZU Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 I wish you have a bunch of spare HTS shocks because they are no longer available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted August 25, 2007 Author Share Posted August 25, 2007 I wish you have a bunch of spare HTS shocks because they are no longer available. They are still available. John at Betamotorsports can get them. Very cool news! I guess when I'm driving fast enough to blow out the illuminas I'll just upgrade. BTW are you using stock sized struts or shortened struts? Sounds great! Dan The struts are shortened. You don't need to shorten them, you can run spacers at the bottom of the cartridge if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 What is the cost of just the inserts from John? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cethern Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 Hey Pete Are you running 350lbs springs on all 4? Thanks Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted August 26, 2007 Author Share Posted August 26, 2007 I'm running 350lb front, and 375lb rear. If you are building a street car, stick with 250lb springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 I found the prices over at betamotorsports: http://www.betamotorsports.com/products/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnosez Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 As the co-owner and driver of what we call the "club" race car with Z-YA, let me second the vast improvement in the way our 240 now handles. No need for a rear sway bar, flat in all the turns, and no bouncing whatsoever. Now I realize the higher spring rates are a big part of all this too but without these shocks we'd be out several hundred dollars from our limited race budget. Based on everything we've seen so far I would strongly recommend a set for anyone with spring rates higher than 200lbs and looking for another answer to the 5-way adjustables. I found that the car wouldn't break loose until the slip angle on the tires was overcome. I tried not to find the limit more than once as I had already done a 360 in a tube frame GT2 911 Porsche one of my assigned students brought with him and then like Pete I had 3 more students (12 run sessions all together). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 So is the compression and rebound both increased when you use turn the adjustment knob? Regards, Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted August 28, 2007 Author Share Posted August 28, 2007 So is the compression and rebound both increased when you use turn the adjustment knob? Regards, Justin The shocks have one adjustment, damping. It is an infinitely adjustable Allen socket that you can adjust from the top. So it changes both compression and rebound simultaneously (not individually adjustable). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Pete, Is this on your silver car or the race car? Are you driving your silver car to the convention? Forget that. I see from John's comment your talking about the race car. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 What kind of chassis stiffening are you running with those spring rates? Also I assume you have camber plates and possibly adjustable control arms front and back? How well do you think those shocks would work ona a more stree opriented car with 225# springs and otherwise stock suspension stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Once shock adjustment with a range of 7.5 turns. That adjustment affects both comression and rebound but the compression range only covers 80 to 210 lbs at .334 mps. Its a very reasonable range for a 240Z running springs from about 200 to, maybe, 400. Rebound has a much larger range during adjustment and essentially you're adjusting the rebound control on this shock. Think of it as a very nice single adjustable. One of the issues with the Illumina is that rebound and compression damping changes maintain the same relative difference so you end up with more compression damping then you want. On the HTS there is a logarithmic increase in rebound damping compared to compression damping so the compression numbers don't get out of hand when adjusting for bigger springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted August 28, 2007 Author Share Posted August 28, 2007 What kind of chassis stiffening are you running with those spring rates? Also I assume you have camber plates and possibly adjustable control arms front and back? How well do you think those shocks would work ona a more stree opriented car with 225# springs and otherwise stock suspension stuff? The car has a 6 point cage, BadDog frame rails, triangulating front strut brace, and rear strut brace. It has the budget camber plates (slotted shock tower bolt holes). It also has front and rear adjustable control arm busings. I think they would work fine, but I don't have any experience using them with 225lb springs. We had Illuminas in there before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted August 28, 2007 Author Share Posted August 28, 2007 Pete, Is this on your silver car or the race car? Are you driving your silver car to the convention? Forget that. I see from John's comment your talking about the race car. Joe It is the club race car which is co-owned by myself, Gnosez, and Roostmonkey. I'm trailering it to the convention. As you can see by this photo, there is way too much compression in turns with the 250lb springs: I'm not bringing the silver turbo car to the Convention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 I just heard from another customer who is running the HTSs on a mostly street 240Z that has the Arizona Z Car OEM style springs (185F 200R). He replaced his Illuminas likes the HTSs a lot better. He just ran an open track event and felt the tuning range on the HTSs helped his lap times while allowing him to drive the car to and from the event. In the past he was stuck with just a couple settings on the Illuminas. That's kind of a vague evaluation but he seems happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFancypants Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 The struts are shortened. You don't need to shorten them, you can run spacers at the bottom of the cartridge if you want. How much did you shorten them? How much shorter are the HTS cartridges vs. the Illuminas you replaced? - Greg - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted September 4, 2007 Author Share Posted September 4, 2007 How much did you shorten them? How much shorter are the HTS cartridges vs. the Illuminas you replaced?- Greg - In the front, they are the same as the MR2 struts I cut the tubes to match. The rear required about a 1" spacer at the bottom of the strut. The rears were shortened to fit 240Z strut cartridges. John can tell you the exact length of the HTS cartridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 The HTS 112F (which is what Pere's running) has a shock body length of 13.875" and a stroke of 6". The HTS 102 has a shock body length of 13.063" and a stroke of 5". Both have the same basic valving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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