RB30 stuff: Aussies please read.

[NickandM 72 240Z]

Careless,

I have also experienced the same "attitude" towards simple requests and have had to find things out the hard way, that said I have also received some really helpfull info off a select few.

So if you need somone to ring around Aussie stores or if you can't get somthing let me know.

 

Cheers

Nick

[Careless]

I did not know that R31House made TommyKaira M30 engine.

 

It's possible that i read it wrong, but i know they have a couple of TK cars in their hands.

 

They must have as the M30 engine was EFI and the one in the youtube video was triple carbs.

 

I still don't think it's good for 240ps. I mean, there's someone on the AUS R31 boards making 210 rwhp from an RB25/30. It's a high comp car too, but I think his cam selection and in/ex air aren't properly fabbed. have to take a look at the pics again.

 

 

See here for a pic of the original install TommyKaira engine aka M30 - along with a Autech RB26DE installed into a R31 and a R31 special with RB25DE with RB26 intake plenum.

R31 N/A Power

 

do you know more about these engines? what output? nice pics

 

thanks!

[NZeder]

do you know more about these engines? what output? nice pics

 

thanks!

Not really. And I don't want to hi-jack your thread more than I already have with more links to these RB30DE/RB26DE builds.

 

You see I picked up a RB26 without the turbos and mainfolds that I was going to build as a RB26DE for my 260z (ie keeping it 2600cc and N/A) with my triple DCOE throttle bodies but my engine builder said it would have to spin hard to make any good power (ie 9000+ rpm = $$$) so told me to pickup a RB30e bottom end which I did. This engine project is on hold as I purchased another zed so $$ have to be saved again (hard when you have 2 zed to spend $$ on)

 

Anyway as a result I have done a fair bit of searching on RB30DE builds and have a few link with pics of RB30DE's or the odd rare Autech RB26DE

 

I still don't think it's good for 240ps. I mean, there's someone on the AUS R31 boards making 210 rwhp from an RB25/30. It's a high comp car too, but I think his cam selection and in/ex air aren't properly fabbed. have to take a look at the pics again.

I could not find if this 240ps was at the crank of rear wheel I am guessing crank as the RB26DE that Autech build was 220ps at the crank. 210rwhp would be about 270hp and the crank? L28's can make 210rwhp without too much trouble in N/A form so I am hoping when we do my RB30DE (with the $$ to do the conversion, build etc) more than that and then some as a road car running on pump gas (ie keeping it around 10 - 10.5:1 CR). This is one of the reasons for the 26 head = solid lifters = higher rpm and they flow well with next to no work, have good valve's yada yada.

[Careless]

so I am hoping when we do my RB30DE

 

Great, so we can share information then

 

Let me know what you know! Cause so far, you and I are the only ones I know of that are building 26/30 DE's.

 

This is great!

 

Welcome aboard

 

SO... back to the nitts and the gritts:

 

RE: The RB30E Bottom end.

 

Perhaps you'll be making power 15% earlier that is equivalent to the RB26 at a later RPM, and possibly more torque, due to the longer rod length & stroke/force applied on the combustion stroke. However, It would still have to wind up to about 7.5 - 8k, and I doubt we can extract more than 300ps out of these engines.

 

I'm shooting for 300. I've been told 320 sounds achievable by someone who's built some worthy N/A engines before (particularily V8s, but still quite powerful nonetheless). But 280 sounds more realistic. If I can match the stock output of an RB26DETT, then I'll stop there for the time being, until I can afford some super nasty head work. For now, when I get the 26 head, it's just port matching and rebuilding the head, along with a new cam install, as I'm getting HKS 264/9.5's for both in/ex, with adjustable HKS gears.

[NZeder]

Cool - I am putting triple DCOE throttle bodies on mine when I get there. I also have another set of DCOE throttle bodies that I am selling - 45mm straight bore (my new ones are 50-48-45mm tapered bore) these 45mm units have never been used.

 

Anyway the RB26 should flow more than well enough for N/A applications and the solid lifters will help with the 7.5-8K RPM range I think we should be able to the 280ps at the flywheel like the stock RB26DETT. If L28's (well strokers) can put out 300+ HP at the flywheel then a RB30DE should too.

 

I currently have the following for my build

RB30E -complete

RB26 head (sold all the bottom end stuff)

H-Beam rods

Metal Tomei 1.0mm head gasket

Timing Belt/Tensioner for Hybrid RB30DE

N1 water pump

N1 oil pump

Z31 200ZR sump/pickup

LinkPlus G3 ECU

ARP head and Main studs

 

Need to do:

JE pistons (waiting for $$ and NZ vs US $$ to get better)

Custom CAMs on bullit shafts

Head recon with new cams etc

Make adapters from RB26 TB mounting to DCOE mounting (should be simple as the spacing is the same just need to change the bolt mounting)

strip RB30E for rebuild

Have my 260z body complete

Wire in ECU yada yada

[Careless]

Cool - I am putting triple DCOE throttle bodies on mine when I get there. I also have another set of DCOE throttle bodies that I am selling - 45mm straight bore (my new ones are 50-48-45mm tapered bore) these 45mm units have never been used.

 

Tell me more about these? Is it because you don't have the stock manifolds and throttle bodies that you are using these, or are you referring to the velocity stacks themselves?

 

 

I currently have the following for my build

 

RB30E -complete - sans sohc head

Blown RB26 awaiting shipment from japan

HKS 264 deg / 9.5 mm lift for in/ex + Gears coming with RB26 from jpn

H-Beam SPOOL rods

Wiseco 16cc Dome Pistons with 1.260 compression height (.020 short of std RB30 height - requires decking)

Timing Belt for RB30DE (Gates T291)

Standard RB26 Water pump (use this if you're building a street car, N1 pumps less water)

Z31 200ZR sump/pickup

ARP head studs

 

This is my second RB30E block, and I'm going into the garage now to strip it down. Wish me luck

[NZeder]

This is my second RB30E block, and I'm going into the garage now to strip it down. Wish me luck

I had a good look at the 3 RB30 block at the engine builders the other day none had cracks where your did - they had some casting marks in this area by no cracks - so let hope this new one you have will just be the same as the 3 I have seen apart - my RB30E is still complete - I need to strip this - a weekends job in the future no doubt - thanks for the heads up on the N1 water pump - might pickup a standard 26 water pump too then - I thought the N1 is anti-cavitation and flows more = better yes? The thermostat should control the temp so I would have thought an N1 would be good?

 

 

Tell me more about these? Is it because you don't have the stock manifolds and throttle bodies that you are using these, or are you referring to the velocity stacks themselves?

The head I got was missing both intake and exhaust manifolds (much like the one you are getting by the sounds) so it was missing the stock Throttle bodies outwards. So the little manifold that goes from the head to where the TB's mount on was still there (I will see if I can find a pic on the interweb thing). I will find a pic - it will help explain it.....what this space - I will edit this post.

 

Can't find a pic of what I am looking for so I will take a pic tonight when I get home - I will also show you a pic of one of the DCOE Throttle bodies I have.

[Careless]

I had a good look at the 3 RB30 block at the engine builders the other day none had cracks where your did - they had some casting marks in this area by no cracks - so let hope this new one you have

Same here, I'm going to use it as a dummy block for now. Compare the needed internals (crank, really) and see which one is in better condition.

 

my RB30E is still complete - I need to strip this - a weekends job in the future no doubt

Takes about an hour or two. All you need is a big Johnson Bar to get anything off that a socket wrench doesn't. YOU MIGHT have trouble getting the timing gear off the crank snout, but Rob (RIPSNZ) has a sure-fire method for taking those out

 

Also, you'll want to take pics as you disassemble it, so you know where things go when you put em back or order new ones.

 

Thanks for the heads up on the N1 water pump - might pickup a standard 26 water pump too then - I thought the N1 is anti-cavitation and flows more = better yes? The thermostat should control the temp so I would have thought an N1 would be good?

What I had original thought, and what Gary (SydneyKid) Reassured me on was the fact that the N1 water pump was made for a racing circuit, which means the pump is constantly at higher RPM. @ 3000+ RPM, the N1 water pump flows the same that the regular one does (or somewhere around there) at virtually idle. So in stop and go traffic, the N1 pump slows to a crawl, and while the thermostat is open it only works to slow down the water further (your engine will overheat). It's done this way so that the OEM pump doesn't over-pump a high-revving engine at speed. As even fractions of a minute with water seeping out of the engine on the track could be catastrophic in various proportions (In the case that the OEM pump over-pressurizes the system and pushes seals out). If you use the OEM pump, either thermostat will be fine. One opens at 64 (n1), the other at 78 (oem) (my numbers may be off a bit, but it's close to that difference between the two).

 

I picked up a standard RB26 pump for 100.00 canadian. So that would be like 75.00 NZD in most places.

 

The head I got was missing both intake and exhaust manifolds (much like the one you are getting by the sounds) so it was missing the stock Throttle bodies outwards. So the little manifold that goes from the head to where the TB's mount on was still there (I will see if I can find a pic on the interweb thing). I will find a pic - it will help explain it.....what this space - I will edit this post.

No need, I know what you're talking about. its the angled runner between the head and the ITB's.

 

So you're adding your own throttle bodies to this? And what Air Horns/Velocity Stacks have you chosen?

Velocity of Sound's Intake Runner Length Calculator at 45mm around 5000 rpm and 264 degrees of duration on the 3rd intake pulse wave shows me a runner length of 26.12 cm. That's from the intake valve head all the way to the bell-mouth.

 

I may end up running a piece of yarn from an open valve to the inlet side of the respective throttle body to track the distance between the two, and then measure the difference. The left over of the 26.12cm - yarn marking length = Air Horn length. I doubt the port + throttle bodies + head to throttle manifold will be less than 6cm, and Velocity of sound makes a 45mm Air Horn at 200mm in length, or less (various sizes). Problem is, they're 60 bucks a piece. OUCH!

 

I also found some cool filters for them too. It would require a bit of fabbing, and would restrict the air a quite a bit.

 

As for your piston selection. If you have a 1.0mm headgasket (Is that compressed thickness?), you can get JE Pistons from the N/A VG30DE engine in the Z32 cars. They are 87.5, which is 0.040 over the standard size. They are also 1.260 compression height, when they should be 1.280 for an RB30 (0.5 mm difference)

 

So if you have those pistons run just a tad proud of the deck (about 0.020 out of the bore) and run the 1.0mm headgasket, you can get a sweet quench area and not smash valves, as the gasket makes up the entire quench area. This makes it so that there is minimal head shaving involved. Only enough to clean it up if anything.

 

Now some would say that using the gasket as quench area is bad, and I would agree, but sometimes you have no choice, and there are a lot of people running this way and haven't had bad experiences. It's just those that do have bad ones that we hear about, because some people point fingers at certain things pretty quickly. But that's their experience, and take it for what it is.

 

Just make sure you CC your head correctly, as they vary 3 - 4 cc from one another for some reason.

 

We'll keep piling info in here.

 

Raff

[Careless]

I had a good look at the 3 RB30 block at the engine builders the other day none had cracks where your did - they had some casting marks in this area by no cracks - so let hope this new one you have

 

Same here, I'm going to use it as a dummy block for now. Compare the needed internals (crank, really) and see which one is in better condition.

 

my RB30E is still complete - I need to strip this - a weekends job in the future no doubt

 

Takes about an hour or two. All you need is a big Johnson Bar to get anything off that a socket wrench doesn't. YOU MIGHT have trouble getting the timing gear off the crank snout, but Rob (RIPSNZ) has a sure-fire method for taking those out

 

Also, you'll want to take pics as you disassemble it, so you know where things go when you put em back or order new ones.

 

Thanks for the heads up on the N1 water pump - might pickup a standard 26 water pump too then - I thought the N1 is anti-cavitation and flows more = better yes? The thermostat should control the temp so I would have thought an N1 would be good?

 

What I had original thought, and what Gary (SydneyKid) Reassured me on was the fact that the N1 water pump was made for a racing circuit, which means the pump is constantly at higher RPM. @ 3000+ RPM, the N1 water pump flows the same that the regular one does (or somewhere around there) at virtually idle. So in stop and go traffic, the N1 pump slows to a crawl, and while the thermostat is open, it only works to slow down the water further, causing heat buildup and hot spots to rear their ugly heads. It's done this way so that the OEM pump doesn't over-pump a high-revving engine at speed and over pressurize and blow out the seals or make the pump collapse. As even fractions of a minute with water seeping out of the engine on the track could be catastrophic in various proportions. If you use the OEM pump, either thermostat will be fine. One opens at 64 (n1), the other at 78 (oem) (my numbers may be off a bit, but it's close to that difference between the two).

 

The RB26 pump I have is anti cavitation (i think it is) and it cost me 100.00 CDN, so it should cost you somewhere around 70.00 NZD since shipping here is more.

 

The head I got was missing both intake and exhaust manifolds (much like the one you are getting by the sounds) so it was missing the stock Throttle bodies outwards. So the little manifold that goes from the head to where the TB's mount on was still there (I will see if I can find a pic on the interweb thing). I will find a pic - it will help explain it.....what this space - I will edit this post.

 

No need, I know what you're talking about. its the angled runner between the head and the ITB's.

 

So you're adding your own throttle bodies to this? And what Air Horns/Velocity Stacks have you chosen?

Velocity of Sound's Intake Runner Length Calculator at 45mm around 5000 rpm and 264 degrees of duration on the 3rd intake pulse wave shows me a runner length of 26.12 cm. That's from the intake valve head all the way to the bell-mouth.

 

I may end up running a piece of yarn from an open valve to the inlet side of the respective throttle body to track the distance between the two, and then measure the difference. The left over of the 26.12cm - yarn marking length = Air Horn length. I doubt the port + throttle bodies + head to throttle manifold will be less than 6cm, and Velocity of sound makes a 45mm Air Horn at 200mm in length, or less (various sizes). Problem is, they're 60 bucks a piece. OUCH!

 

I also found some cool filters for them too. It would require a bit of fabbing, and would restrict the air a quite a bit.

 

As for your piston selection. If you have a 1.0mm headgasket (Is that compressed thickness?), you can get JE Pistons from the N/A VG30DE engine in the Z32 cars. They are 87.5, which is 0.040 over the standard size. They are also 1.260 compression height, when they should be 1.280 for an RB30 (0.5 mm difference)

 

So if you have those pistons run just a tad proud of the deck (about 0.020 out of the bore) and run the 1.0mm headgasket, you can get a sweet quench area and not smash valves, as the gasket makes up the entire quench area. This makes it so that there is minimal head shaving involved. Only enough to clean it up if anything.

 

Now some would say that using the gasket as quench area is bad, and I would agree, but sometimes you have no choice, and there are a lot of people running this way and haven't had bad experiences. It's just those that do have bad ones that we hear about, because some people point fingers at certain things pretty quickly. But that's their experience, and take it for what it is.

 

Just make sure you CC your head correctly, as they vary 3 - 4 cc from one another for some reason.

 

We'll keep piling info in here.

 

Raff

[NZeder]

Ok cool you know the part I am taking about. Then this will help. The spacing of the ports on this manifold is almost the same as DCOE so close it is not funny and this is why some use the RB26 TB's to make a triple throttle body setup on a DCOE manifold. Anyway the bolt spacing is different more like IDA so the plan is to make an adapter plate that will bolt to this manifold change the bolt pattern to DCOE and be at thickness that we calculate what we require to get the best flow from this whole combo - like you have said from the trumpets to the valve it should be X long. The plan is to install the DCOE throttle bodies at a location so the throttle plates are Y from the valve and having a trumpet that is Z long thus giving the required result (assuming this all works in the space between the strut tower and head).

 

Here is some info on the throttle bodies I have and that I will part with.

 

These are 45mm with the pro series trumpets as shown in the pic. These come with fuel rails for Jap 11mm O-ring top feed injectors (but I also have some 14mm fuel rails that I could part with for extra). One TB has the D shaft mod for the included TPS switch/sensor. Also includes all balance joiner and a cable pull arm/linkage.

Info about the TB's from manufacture.

**Throttle bodies are manufactured from heat treaded 601 Aluminum alloy and are CNC machined. The brass shafts run on bearings with the butterflies secured by split screws for ease of servicing and reliability. The butterflies have .0005" tolerance fit to ensure good balance and fit while the injector bose placement is positioned to ensure good fuel atomization.

 

**The Pro-series rum tubes have been designed using advanced computer modeling and a flow bench to obtain the best flow. They feature a full 270 degree return on the bell mouth for additional draw.

 

**Linkages are manufactured from 6061 aluminum and reamed finished where the shaft mounts to obtain a slip proof fit. They come anodized blue for a smart appearance."

These retail here in NZ for close to $3000NZD. My loss is your gain.

Selling as I have had a project change and these are no longer required (sold my 280zx that these were going on, with a L28) Suit any DCOE intake manifold.

 

I am after $1900 NZD which using a 0.75 USD to NZD (exchange rate from the other day) = $1425 USD. Shipping from NZ to US should not be too bad as they are light and will go into a smallish box. I also have some RB25DET injectors and for some extra I could include some 14mm o-ring fuel rail too so you will have a choice of what injectors you want to run.

 

Here are some pics of one of the units that I have unpacked - the others are still as I got them (wrapped in bubble wrap)

 

[Careless]

that looks like a pretty tight unit! I like it

 

I'm curious to know how much the output between your and my engine will differ.

 

This is getting fun

[RIPSNZ]

Just a quick note regarding N/A RB30 power outputs,

A guy in NZ who has vast experience in N/A engines built a RB30de (RB26 head) with a pretty big budget for a guy here and it made a genuine 400hp on an engine dyno, so it is possible to get good numbers from them.

It's in a 240z track car too

 

Rob

[NZeder]

Just a quick note regarding N/A RB30 power outputs,

A guy in NZ who has vast experience in N/A engines built a RB30de (RB26 head) with a pretty big budget for a guy here and it made a genuine 400hp on an engine dyno, so it is possible to get good numbers from them.

It's in a 240z track car too

 

Rob

Is that Gavin's 240z, Or was it Kevin's (no I don't think he got his installed in the car) or there is another one that I know of that Homewood is working on? North Island or South? I would love to see this car and talk to both the owner and builder

[RIPSNZ]

Lyn Rogers in Auckland built the motor and the owner of the car is Graham.

 

Rob

[NZeder]

Lyn Rogers in Auckland built the motor and the owner of the car is Graham.

 

Rob

I know of the car - I meant to say Graham but I thought Gavin - that is Graham Lucas's car painted red white and blue - my brother blasted the body shell a few years back. I am a Lucas too but not related.

[Careless]

Just a quick note regarding N/A RB30 power outputs,

A guy in NZ who has vast experience in N/A engines built a RB30de (RB26 head) with a pretty big budget for a guy here and it made a genuine 400hp on an engine dyno, so it is possible to get good numbers from them.

It's in a 240z track car too

 

Rob

 

S'what me likes to hear!

 

Chances are he makes anywhere from 15 - 20% more power than I would considering he had a way higher budget, and high compression at that too considering it's a track car. Or does it run on pump gas?

 

still 400 - 20% = 320 hp, which is in line with what I want to achieve.

[NZeder]

still 400 - 20% = 320 hp, which is in line with what I want to achieve.

If I recall the Graham car runs triple throttle bodies not too different to the ones that I have so if you factor in some drive train losses of around 28% then that should make around 288HP at the wheels which is ok but I could have thought more would be possible given I know of a L28 3.0 that makes close to that. I know of a L28 Reg Cook engine (local well known Nissan engine builder - I believe he has made a A15 with 200HP yep 1500cc and 200hp - even the Japanese were impressed back in the 80's when he did this) - back to the Reg Cook engine it was an L28 with just a 0.5mm overbore and it make 250HP at the wheels. Of cause one Dyno can read more than the next and it can vary day to day - so this is not really anything to go by.

[Careless]

go and git some pics!

[george.bryant]

If anyone needs any RB parts/numbers etc just let me know. Theres a tonne more RB parts here in NZ compared to OZ.

[Careless]

If anyone needs any RB parts/numbers etc just let me know. Theres a tonne more RB parts here in NZ compared to OZ.

 

Good stuff

 

So now we got two contacts for RB parts on this board for harder to find things. I'm here in Canada, and you're there in NZ.

 

Thanks for the heads up