Guest silverbullet Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 HELP!! I need to do something about my suspension soon(77-280), everything is very stock and very old and I guess I am looking for some advise on maybe witch way to go, the car is all stock(except tires,wheels,consummables etc...)and I plan on putting a chev. 350smlblk with a 700R4 trans. in it in a few years, now I want the car to handle as good as I can get it to without sacrificing to much streetability, I am not interested in a strip car, nor do I want a track car, I just want a screaming fast great handling awesome looking street car that wont vibrate me to death if I decide to drive it daily for a while, now I was thinking about going with Tokiko springs(approx. 1" lowering) and Tokiko illumina cartridges with urethane bushings all the way around, but now I am starting to wonder about coilovers, would they be better for my application? I know the Tokiko combo is close to $900.00 from Motorsport and I would still need all the bushings and other little things plus down the road I would still need a performance anti-sway bar kit. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Baldwin Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 The Illuminas are great to ensure you can match damping rates to your springs. However, if you can get info on what non-adjustable dampers will match the spring rates you want to use, you can save quite a few bucks. I have the Illuminas and am happy with them, but they aren't really all that "adjustable", imo. You just find the one or two settings that work with the car and your set. Any softer is too bouncy for comfort and any stiffer to skatey for performance (i.e., you don't just set them to 1 for the street and 5 for the track). You can affect transitional balance with them, but if you're not competing at the track or autoX this shouldn't be much of a concern for you. FWIW, I compete successfully in high-speed time trials and don't have coilovers. Sounds like you don't need them either. You should be able to get a very good suspension setup for $500 or less. I wouldn't worry about camber adjustability, as lowering the car will get you some negative camber without being excessive. Try springs first and then decide if you want stiffer sway bars. The best thing you can do for performance is get a good set of tires. 225/50-15s fit without rubbing on 15x7" zero offset wheels, other sizes surely work, too, but that is what I run. There are VERY good tires available in that size these days. Think about what spring rate you want. I'm running springs twice as stiff as stock on my 240Z, and that makes a good street/track compromise. If you're high-perf street only, I'd consider springs 1 1/2 times as stiff as stock. When you know what spring rate you'll be going with, ask around again to see what dampers will work well with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 My 2c worth: Go with the coilovers. Since you are plannning major mods down the road, the coilovers will give you the flexibility to change spring rates and ride height. For instance, if you are planning a longer trip in the car, you can go a little softer on the springs. Then for tearing around town, go a little stiffer. I wouldn't think that it would take you more than an hour or so to change springs at all four corners if you want to increase/decrease rates. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest silverbullet Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 Thanks for the advice guys, if I had to do it right this very minute I would probably go with the stock setup with the Tokiko stuff but I do have a little time so I still want to do a little more reasearch on my options, also where to get the Tokiko(or other) stuff a little cheaper.Dan, do you know what and who from would be around a $500 setup? Anymore ideas anyone???????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 You definitely want to search the archives. I have seen some very respectable members of this board say they feel coil overs are not suitable for a street car. Obviously to each his own. Would like to second what Dan Baldwin said about "225/50-15s fit without rubbing on 15x7" zero offset wheels". That is exactly the set up I ran for auto X with my 240. In fact, the majority of the people at the trials ran the same. Seems like most of the guys on this board are running some insane wheel/tire set ups, but then again they have considerably more HP than my near stock 240 motor. I have always wondered what wheel spacers and rear tires being a half foot wider than the fronts would do to a Z's handling. I used Datsun "Euro" springs and KYB struts (all from MSA) and had a nice street car. Definietly not the most radical set up (especially compared to some of the guys on this site), but it handled very flat on the on ramps. The 50 series tires were probably the biggest hit to ride comfort. I also replaced all the rubber with urethane. In particular you want to replace the steering coupler with something solid. Overall I had a nice handling car. It tends to push a bit more than I liked, but I think that had something to do with the oversized sway bars. The MSA set up is considerably heavier than what most of the other auto X's were running. If I had it to do over I would probably go with adjustable struts and maybe 16" wheels to better fill out the wheel well (if that is possible). I would have to think about coil overs. Don't know if I would want springs much stiffer than I have. Same for lowering the car. The Euro springs lowered the car just slightly. Any lower and I don't think I would enjoy the Maryland highways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Baldwin Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 Motorsport Auto has 25% stiffer lowering springs for $180, Tokico springs for $230, Euro springs for $180, and Eibach progressives for $280 (though I'm not a fan of the idea of progressive rate springs). They also have struts from $77, $100, and $150 (the Illuminas). And sway bar kits for $230. There are other sources, but I happen to have my 2000 MSA catalog here. I'd go with springs/struts first, then see if you still want stiffer sway bars. It's worth noting that a stiffer front sway bar will tear the stock mounts out of a 240z over time (I drilled through my frame rails to use the whole section in tension, rather than just the lower flange). 280z might be better in this regard, but it's something to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 I consider the larger aftermarket sway bars to be mandatory. If you don't expect to spend any real track time, the coil over are not neccessarry IMO. I would not spend any $ on 15" wheels and tires. The 16's on my car is the best thing I ever did for driveability. They are 205 55 16 and are the same height as stock which really takes the edge of sharp bumps, keeps the speedo accurate as well. They fit without any rubbing on 16x7 zero offset wheels. IMO, the 225 50 15 is too short at 1 full inch less than the 205 55 16 (24.2 vs. 25.2). If you have to have the extra width, the 225 50 16 is 25.2" high as well. I really like the fit on the 205's however. Wheels were $159 each from Summit and the tires were D60 HR closeouts from the tire rack at $58 each. Total package with lugs, mounting and balancing was less than $1000. That is what I would put the extra money towards rather than coilovers. I went to the 16's from 205 60 14's at 23.7" tall and HIGHLY recommend the taller tire to say the least. I have Suspension Techniques springs that were $139 for the set of 4 from Summit and the ST front and rear bars that were $229. The jury is out on the KYB gas-a-just as the damping is a bit firm on washboard type surfaces, but at $50 each, hard to argue too much. Total package for my car was around $1500 wheels, tires, springs, bars, AND strut cartridges! Summit can get most parts, just don't mess around with the catalog, call and talk to a rep. Everything was special order but their prices were excellent in comparison to MSA. ($100 less per wheel!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 Very good advice from Hybrid Members on suspension modifications but please do not forget HyBrid member/parts suppliers Mike/SCCA web page(go to bottom of page for auto parts) and Ross C web page who have competive prices,quality products on all your suspension needs,customer support ,own Hybrid Zs and between the two of them forgot more about Datsuns than most people will ever learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest silverbullet Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Thanks everyone for the help, I was kind of leaning toward the 16" wheels, I am pretty sure that I will go with the stock strut setup, probably the Tokiko springs/shocks but I will still do some more reasearch, I can always go with coilovers down the road when I am chev. smbk'd. Thanks guys (I would still welcome anyone elses .02). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Originally posted by Dan Baldwin:... Think about what spring rate you want. I'm running springs twice as stiff as stock on my 240Z, and that makes a good street/track compromise.... If you're high-perf street only, I'd consider springs 1 1/2 times as stiff as stock. Dan, what spring are your running, i.e. brand, rate, part #, where to buy, ect? Also, what setting on the Illuminas do you use for street driving, for track? Thanks!John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Baldwin Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Mine are Suspension Techniques. 160 lb/in front, 200 rear. I got them in '93, and I've heard their springs are softer now. Anway, they lowered the car an inch or so, and as I said they're a good street/track compromise. That is, they're too stiff for the street and too soft for the track:) I don't remember but I *might* have ordered them from Arizona Z, or MSA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Baldwin Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Oops, forgot the Illumina settings. I've used 2 front/3 rear and 3 front/4 rear. I've heard that even 1 is too stiff for stock springs, 5 might be good for 250 to 300 lb/in springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 Suspension techniques tech girl said #60135 for 240 is 112#/182. MSA springs 129/184. Tokico 140/165. I've ben using the MSAs, but would really like to find a stiffer set. Anyone with more info? Who's using Eibach progressives? 68-148/85-306 Whats the gripe with those? I see springs in the Jegs/Summit with lengths and rates. Anyone know what the stock free length and diameter of a 240 spring? I want a max for the street set up, don't think the rates we're talking here will do. I remember 250/275# rates for one of our ex-V8Z members and successful racer David Spillman. John John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug71zt Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 Guess you're looking for opinions - so here's my .02. I put Ground Control coilovers with Illuminas in my car last spring. 200F/225R. IMO they are too stiff for the street. I would say 175/200 would be better - I'll let you know next spring.(snow is flying here no more Z for me).I run the struts on 2 or 3. The strut housings are sectioned 1.5" front and rear. Bars are 1 1/8 front and 7/8 rear. Car has small push off of the power and healthy oversteer on the boost but the LSD may have something to do with that. Wheels are 17x7 and 225/45/17. I'll be getting track tires and rims next year in 16" 225/50/16. Second your opinion on 17" wheels - too big for the Z.(Look pretty great though) . Hope this helps - Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 If anyone does go with the Eibachs, buy them from Ground control or Summit(call order) and save $50. I like the guys at MSA, usually, but 50 bucks goes a long way for me these days. I'll throw out a crazy question: What would happen if you ran the rear springs from MSA in all 4 corners? When I placed my V6 in the front of the car was about 1" higher than the front due to rear weight bias. The V8 looks dead flat. I know the MSA rear spring is a tad shorter, but 184 lb in all corners might be better for my application. Never see track, dedicated streeter with no regard for ride quality, but don't want to bounce off road due to over stiff. I'm going to have a buttload of torque and hp with the 383. Really went for the lightweight assembly from light crank pistons rods pulleys radiator...everything. Hoping for a pretty good weight bias. Don't know squat in this area, so comments, tounge lashings, admonitions welcome. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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