Pop N Wood Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 If anything it should improve. Search the archives to peruse all the advantages of a JTR V8 swap. They are many. Try searching of "Scarab" to get some detailed handling info. For example, here is one site with a sweet LT1 Z: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~rontyler/Z.html Ron lists his weight distribution as 49% fron, 51% rear. Don't know if this was before or after he switched to the much lighter aluminum tank. (I think a stock Z is slightly more forward biased.) This car did not gain any appreciable weight and, while not listed, the V8 tends to lower the center of gravity. The FI LT1 should give excellent throttle response (with considerably more torque) at all RPM's which gives you more control over the car in turns. His suspension is far from stock. With a better suspension, no weight gain, better weight distribution, better throttle response, lower CG, etc. etc. etc. this should be one hell of a car on any road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 In theory... But I have yet to see a V8 Z break any of the current ITS lap records at the tracks I run (Buttonwillow, Willow Springs, Las Vegas, and Phoenix PIR). When I see a V8 240Z turn a low 1:3x at Willow Springs (which is definately a power track) then I'll agree that V8 Zs can handle. Until then, a lowly 2.4L ITS 240Z will probably stomp the V8 boys on a "real" race track. Anyone notice the gauntlet thrown down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synlubes Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Hail to the "Inliner" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 John, thats good info to know, and makes me feel good since I'll be stuck with the L for some time I'm sure I still think though, something like Vettetek is building up, would be a serious Spank-Meister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jewishjalopi Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 What happens to the performance in the turns when you install the LT1/T56 in a 240z/280zx... I would like to do a swap sometime in the future but im not a big 1/4 mile guy. i live around one of the best driving roads in cali and i dont wanna sacrifice having fun going up and down the mountain just to have a v8 under the hood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katman Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Originally posted by johnc:In theory... But I have yet to see a V8 Z break any of the current ITS lap records at the tracks I run (Buttonwillow, Willow Springs, Las Vegas, and Phoenix PIR). Ahhh, John illustrates the "power" of handling and driving. Reminds me of a Triangle Z Club school at Roebling Road a few years ago when Chet Wittel (ITS track record holder at Road Atlanta) and I took a $300 (honest) 240Z there with some of our cast off race tires and brake pads and proceeded to wax just about every Porsche 911, Acura NSX, BMW5xx and a V8 Z in the instructor class all weekend. Granted our $300 Z came with the old BSR Koni handling package (115/145 springs, Koni shocks, sway bars) but that's all. Stock 200k mile L24 engine. Life begins in the turns. God I miss that old piece of junk. Now give me a V8 240Z for a week to "prep" and put John or Chet in it and I bet we can obliterate some ITS track records. Putting a V8 up against an L24 on a dyno is as unfair as putting an SCCA top notch driver and car up against somebody who does a few track days with his street car every now and then. Just ain't apples and apples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Baldwin Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 What he said. No way a well-prepared ITS Z-car would be any problem for an equally well-prepared LT1 Z-car. It's just that there aren't many full-race V8 Zs. I feel DAMN good when I'm as quick as the ITS record at the New England tracks I go to, and I've got a good 60 rwhp on any ITS spec 240Z. I've got the motor, I just don't have the level of car preparation, the capacity for data collection and evaluation, or the driver talent that commited roadracing warriors have. Hack vs. hack, or seriously developed car vs. same, an LT1 Z would spank an L24 Z in any performance contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 You know I was hesitant to answer this post because I just knew there were more experienced guys that should be answering. But since no one else was taking the bait I threw in what I knew. However, the original question wasn't "what subtle differences are there in the handling of a V8 Z to an inline 6 Z" but rather whether one will "sacrifice" handling with a V8. It is good to know that in line 6's are still so competitive in certain classes of racing (and worth pursuing the gauntlet being thrown), BUT I think everyone will agree that done right a V8 Z is still a very formidable corner carver? It is not like we are turning the car into the equivalent of a 60's Hemi Cuda. Getting back to JohnC's challenge: given my arguments, why do you think the inline 6's perform better than the V8 conversions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Jim, I have a 73 with Lt-1 and t-56, 6 pt cage coil overs double adjustable koni's, etc, etc. I made this car to run well on road courses and to carve the corners on the back roads. It does that and more. At driving schools and track days I'm usually at the front of my group (not bragging, I often say the car needs a driver upgrade) I'm usually quicker that most prepared cars but there are always a few all out race cars that are quicker than me. The fact that an average at best driver can do what I do in the car speaks volumes about what the car is capable of. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 i would love to see a full out road racing v8z, theres not too many out there.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Originally posted by Mark:I have a 73 with Lt-1 and t-56, 6 pt cage coil overs double adjustable koni's, etc, etc. I made this car to run well on road courses and to carve the corners on the back roads. It does that and more. Mark, what (car) were your Koni DAs made for? I ask because I know there are several other struts that can be used with shortened strut housing, and DAs would be nice, I have them on my other car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 > Getting back to JohnC's challenge: given my > arguments, why do you think the inline 6's > perform better than the V8 conversions? I agree with everyone that a well prepared V8 Z setup for a road race track should easily beat an ITS prepared 240Z. Unfortunately, no one's build such a V8 Z yet that I'm aware of (although I saw some photos of a NorCal V8 Z that looked interesting - looked like a GT2 car with a V8). Once of the other issues is weight. Everyone talks about how a V8 (aluminum Chevy or a SB Ford) weighs less then the L6, but no one talks about how much more the transmissions, rear diff, plumbing, electrical, mounts, etc. weight. An ITS 240Z has to weigh 2435 without driver. Although I could be mistaken, I have yet to hear about a V8 conversion the hits that weight number before adding the SCCA mandated roll cage, fuel cell, etc. BTW... my 240 with its 300+ hp L6 should weigh in at 2200 lbs without my fat butt in the seat. So once one of the V8 guys beats an ITS record somewhere here on the West Coast, he gets to play with me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Mudge, I'll look up part numbers tonight. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Ron Tyler lists the Dry weight of his LT1-T56 72 240Z as 2420 lbs. Thats with brake upgrades, R200, CV joints, coil overs and some strut tower bracing. Check out the link I posted above. This includes a full interior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaryZ Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 My E-Production car weights in around 2170 lbs w/o driver and it's running gear except for the diff should be able to handle the LT1's hp. So, it might be possible to get the weight close to 2200 lbs even after a R200 transplant and a V8. As the newer cars are being allowed into EP, the 240Zs are becoming less competitive (thanks to the absence of rule changes) so we are thinking about going the V8 route or dropping in a Rebello 3L engine (300+ hp) and having fun on open tracks. With the EP car we typically run several seconds under ITS times, with 300+ hp--who knows--might approach GT3/GT2 times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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