OvErMiNd Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 First off, the K24 has more displacement, and secondly, many honda guys say the K series is the best 4 cylinder honda has ever made. It's head flows extremely well. If you're gonna get 250hp to the wheels in a F20C you're going to need to port the head, get new cams, retune the ECU, supporting intake, exhaust and fuel mods as well. You'll end up spending at least what you spent on the motor, probably more. Now you're looking at having probably 7k+ into the motor, and you could have just gotten a VQ35 which weighs about the same, sits farther back, but will put nearly 250hp down stock. And I still think that it'd be hard to get it to 250HP on pump gas. You can't tune right to the edge with pump gas because you have to factor in the inconsistancy of pump gas out there, so you're leaving performance on the table for safety. Now, if you're running race gas all the time, sure you can run 12:1 or higher compression all day long and make an extra 20% power. I bet even on a completely stock F20C just tuning the ecu for 110 octane would get you 10% extra power. But that's just speculation, something not seen in a very good light here on HZ so i'll just knock it off now. EDIT: Oh yea, and the guy thinking about doing this is in napa isn't he? So he has to deal with 91 octane, not 93 like much of the country. sry for the double post, but you can't tune the f20c ECU. Do you mean an AEM EMS? That's the way to go for these as the 2006+ model is the only ECU that can be flashed and, of course, that's a f22c. Other ECUs like the Mugen and Spoon are outfitted for Japanese spec s2000s which have differences like compression ratio. I believe it's 11.7:1 in Japan in stead of our 11.2:1 in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 An F20C head flows more out of the box then the k20a. It variable valve timing isn't as good though. Take a f20c, long block, throw in a k24 crank, and appropriate rods and you will be making around 240whp. The stock f20c pistons are forged. The K series and F series share a ton in common in their design. Same bore spacing. Similar cylinder head design. Inline pro has made 300whp with a 2.7L k series with stock head, intake manifold, header and throttle body. These motors are very potent. To each their own. Regardless you would have a good amount of money tied up in building a f20c. Might as well do an ls1 if its all about hp/dollar. Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 sry for the double post, but you can't tune the f20c ECU. Do you mean an AEM EMS? That's the way to go for these as the 2006+ model is the only ECU that can be flashed and, of course, that's a f22c. Other ECUs like the Mugen and Spoon are outfitted for Japanese spec s2000s which have differences like compression ratio. I believe it's 11.7:1 in Japan in stead of our 11.2:1 in the US. I'd bet money that you CAN tune the F20C. BTW, piggyback systems work in a variety of ways, and might just be acting as a programmable EPROM, which means you're pretty much just tuning the OEM ECU to your own specs. Almost all ECU's are tunable, it's just a matter of what it takes. If it requires burning new chips for every tune, then that's what you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete84 Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Hell, I would like to build one for e85 that was 14:1 CR and drive it around on the street. It would be fun as hell. How far can compression be bumped to when using E85? Might be nice for turbo conversions on n/a motors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OvErMiNd Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I'd bet money that you CAN tune the F20C. BTW, piggyback systems work in a variety of ways, and might just be acting as a programmable EPROM, which means you're pretty much just tuning the OEM ECU to your own specs. Almost all ECU's are tunable, it's just a matter of what it takes. If it requires burning new chips for every tune, then that's what you do. Well a piggyback, yes. For a piggyback I would suggest emanage ultimate, BUT it's very limited since the f20 ECU absolutely can NOT be flashed. The piggybacks would be great for NA, but major mods like ITBs or stroking would really require a full ECU upgrade. Any FI more than seven or eight pounds would require a new one also. I know this for a fact as I owned one for a couple years. 05 and under are SOL on flashing their ECUs. I'm not going to look for documentation to prove it, but you may notice on hondata's site that there is no hondata flash for 05 and under. "current only K20A, K20A2, K20A3, K24A2-TSX ECUs and 06 F22 S2000 ECUs can be re-flashed)" A great site to do your f20c research on would be s2ki.com. Here's a link to "The official NA tuning/I want 230whp NA" thread: http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=336978&st=0 This thread has all your NA tuning needs as far as documentation goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z2000 Posted May 23, 2008 Author Share Posted May 23, 2008 Well... I finaly got my F20C a couple days ago. Sorry for all the hype and no action until now, I had a really slow cash poor winter but things are rolling now. "LET THE FAB BEGIN" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careless Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkach Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 I hope u've taken the time to do alot of prep work because I'm sure alot of us want to see pics ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 How much do the F20c engine/trans/ecu setups cost? Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z2000 Posted May 26, 2008 Author Share Posted May 26, 2008 How much do the F20c engine/trans/ecu setups cost? Justin I got mine for $3,400 with no ecu. You must use a stand alone unless you are planning on using the oem s2000 ignition cylinder and key with the "chip". Rumor has it the stock ecu won't turn on unless the chipped key is in the ignition. Kinda crappy but not really when you have a stand alone off the bat. I will be posting pics up for sure. Probably wont get deep enough into the project for pics until after my vacation in early june. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jcushing Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 i look forward to seeing some progress.... nice to see a familiar face on this board justin s2k swaps are expensive id expect between 2-4k with a tranny, ecu, harness and needed accessories. thats really the only downfall to this swap IMHO.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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