z32 and rb cas disassembly

[scottyMIz]

well after many headaches with the stock trigger wheel with my haltech e6k i'm replacing it with a z31 wheel. I saw on one web page which cas to look for and i had one from a z32 tt on my rb25. The z32 cas does work on the rb engines, the plug is different but all i did was break off the plug part on the sensor. The blades are wider on the z32 cas and it makes the plug stay on, i drove it with it this way for over 2k miles. Anyway i dug into it today and here is what i did for those interested in changing the wheel. I took the three screws out of the housing, in the z32 cas it has tamper proof screws. I used a flat blade screw driver and pushed down really hard to get them out, all came out no prob. After that the drive needs to be taken out it's pretty simple just use a punch and knock it out. The drive will slide off and give access to the bearing beneith. I broke off the half moon keyway on the end since i dont have to have it with the haltech and it would be next to impossible to get the bearing off with it on. I looked around for something to pull the bearing off since trying to use a vise is very harsh . I found a beam clamp (used for hanging plumbing and conduit from metal I beams) and cut the bottom center out to go around the shaft and under the bearing. here is a pic

and one of it after pullin the bearing

to get the rest apart you have to take and drill the plastic plug in the opposite side of the cas like this( i used a 1/2 inch drill but a smaller one would look a little nicer)

then use a punch and knock out the shaft here is a pic of it disassembled

once i get the z31 wheel out of my old dizzy from the l28 i'll be putting it in and i'll get pics. I coulda got a few more pics to make it a little easier to follow but i got in a hurry and forgot i had the camera.....doh

 

i just figured i'd post what i did to help any others looking to change theirs out, I looked around and couldn't find anything on it.

[Careless]

nice write up, scoots!

 

pics are a little blurrage though

[Evan Purple240zt]

Nice work mcguyver

 

LOL

 

Great info man.

[scottyMIz]

yea they are a lil blurred my cam doesn't take good close ups, i can get some more. I did end up getting the rb25 cas apart too that one sucks but it is possible to do it and swap the wheel. I'll get pics of that too and you know i have had a few ppl call me mcguyver lol. i am plannin on gettin the wheel prolly tomorrow or maybe even tonight, more pics to come

[scottyMIz]

got more pics, and the modified cas works great!!! i got it to actually tune right and run like a dream, dispite the broken piston Took it for a ride today and man does that thing haul butt. I had to modify the mounting tabs on the "stator" as i am calling it to move it farther from the stock location to accomodate the z31 wheel. The z31 wheel is bigger than both the z32 and rb trigger wheels so i had to make everything "fit" i had to use the main shaft from the z32 cas and the stator and housing from the rb. Kinda a frankenstein'd it but man it makes a huge difference.

here is another pic of the puller i made and it does work on the rb cas as well as the z32 cas

 

here is the finished product along with the wheels from the rb25 and the z32

z32 on the left rb25 in the center

and another finished pic

 

 

so all in all the cam sensors of the rb and the z32 can be taken apart in one piece. I would suggest that if you were going to use one use the ones with the plastic plug in the front cover they have screws in the main shaft so you dont have to use vise grips to get the wheel out sorry my pics suck i didn't think to get many when i was building it.

[Careless]

still a pretty good indication of what's what here. which is great

 

NICE!

 

so this is just a regular z31 cas wheel?

[scottyMIz]

yea just a z31 wheel i beleive it's the turbo one. I had to make the center hole round it's about 3/4 round stock. It only has two holes where as you can see in the z32 wheel it has three so i added one, just marked and drilled the new hole and then filed the one hole to make it fit. I wish i got pics while it was apart but i really wasn't sure it would work

[zedman240]

I'm in the middle of an RB conversion, and I'll be using an aftermarket computer but I've been told the sensor wheel has to be modified. I'm sure I have the CAS that can't be pulled apart. I've taken the cover off but there seems to be no way to get the wheel out! Anyone had fun stripping one of these?? I'm two steps away from throwing it out of a moving car....

[scottyMIz]

hey zedman it can be taken apart but it is difficult first you need to either press or tap out the pin holding the shaft to the drive. Then once that is off you will need to make something(i used a beam clamp as in the pics above) to pull the bearing. Then with your cas you will have to use vise grips or something to take the collar holding the trigger wheel in off of there, it might be possible to get it off in one piece i just didn't care so i bent mine. If you get it off in one piece then you will ust have to press it back on. In order to get the whole shaft out you will need to drill a hole in the plastic cover on the back side then use a punch to tap it out. The cas is now fully disassembled and ready for modding. Hope this helps

[SATAN]

Ok...

 

I am trying to do the exact opposite of what you did. "Huh" you say?

 

I am trying to put the z32 CAS disk into my z31 distributor. I understand you went with the z31 disk because of the larger diameter and better resolution BUT, I am running an AEM. AEM sends a different wheel all together with their ECU's. This wheel bolts directly into the z32 CAS and supposedly works tons better. Here is what the z32 wheel from AEM looks like. I have it sitting over the z31 wheel for those wondering about the size difference.

 

24 "tooth" AEM disk for the z32 sitting on top of a z31 disk.

 

Now, you said you had to adjust some things for the optical sensor to line up with the new z31 cas wheel because it is larger. I have to do the same thing, but opposite. I have to move it in for the smaller z32 wheel. My question is this. Since you had both dizzy's in front of you (I don't have a z32 dizzy) do you think that the z32 sensor itself would bolt into the z31 distributor? It has the 3 screw holes like the z32 does, but i don't know if it is the same pattern. If this was the case, I could just pull the plastic sensor out of a z32 dizzy and bolt it and my AEM z32 wheel into my z31 dizzy.

 

Here is the other thing I am thinking of. Since it seems that EVERYONE is upgrading to the larger z31 disk and having it work great, Maybe I can just configure the z32 AEM to read the z31 disk with good results.

 

Here are a few more pics just for reference

 

z32 AEM wheel mocked up into a stock z31 CAS.

 

 

z31 disk inside a z31 CAS

[Careless]

could you somehow cover the holes on the Z31 cas wheel to mimic the AEM ones?

[Careless]

ahhhh. i got it.

 

find out how many slits per AEM hole. start where AEM's leading hole starts and cut out the Z31 slits so they are the same size. (they should be 5 slits wide, with 10 slit gap, and then 5 slits open again, and then 10 slit gap)

 

using precision cutting tool, cut the slits to size, then JB weld the remaining gaps that have smaller slits in between. clean the falling and leading edges of the new larger holes, and there you have it.

 

I THINK this would work. It would take time, but it should be identical to AEM's wheel.

 

Of course not a lot of people would take the time to do that. I could see myself watching a movie I already watched (cause i wouldnt be entranced by the screen!) and doing it over the dialogue. It would happen so quick this way. LOL

[mtnickel]

This would appear harder than it sounds. I attempted to do mine, but it's BLOODY hard to even see and count the slits. You'd be surprised. A good magnafying glass rig and vise to clamp wheel are essential.

Even cutting the notches is hard...I couldn't use and snippers, and resorted to using a dremel with my tiniest bit.

 

It ended up being too much work and I just called AEM to get one (i had to magically get a real Serial number for an RB AEM ECU for them to send me one though).

 

I have seen the mod done though.

If i were to do it again, i'd get a good scoring tool or good felt and mark out the entire thing before hand. Even still it's not easy. I was also trying to make a 72 tooth'd wheel with 2 missing teeth (to simulate a 36-1 crank wheel). Perhaps that's where my increased difficulty came.

 

 

On a side note, you can't use the OEM wheels for AEM. Not the 360 slit section anyways. If it's distributor based, you could probably use the 6 slits though.

 

Mark

 

ahhhh. i got it.

 

find out how many slits per AEM hole. start where AEM's leading hole starts and cut out the Z31 slits so they are the same size. (they should be 5 slits wide, with 10 slit gap, and then 5 slits open again, and then 10 slit gap)

 

using precision cutting tool, cut the slits to size, then JB weld the remaining gaps that have smaller slits in between. clean the falling and leading edges of the new larger holes, and there you have it.

 

I THINK this would work. It would take time, but it should be identical to AEM's wheel.

 

Of course not a lot of people would take the time to do that. I could see myself watching a movie I already watched (cause i wouldnt be entranced by the screen!) and doing it over the dialogue. It would happen so quick this way. LOL

[garvice]

Satan, The Z32 cas and RB35 Cas (And RB30 for that matter) both have the plug coming out horizontal with the disk. As for your Z31 distributor (And my l28 distributor that I was modifying) the plug comes out underneath.

 

As for everything else, I believe they match up (Would have to pull my distributor open to have a look, which really isn't hard, I am just feeling lasy tonight). You would need to cut a hole in the side of your distributor though.

[SATAN]

Satan, The Z32 cas and RB35 Cas (And RB30 for that matter) both have the plug coming out horizontal with the disk. As for your Z31 distributor (And my l28 distributor that I was modifying) the plug comes out underneath.

 

As for everything else, I believe they match up (Would have to pull my distributor open to have a look, which really isn't hard, I am just feeling lasy tonight). You would need to cut a hole in the side of your distributor though.

 

Man, if you could post some pictures of that, that may help tremendously! If it did bolt right into the z31 dizzy, drilling/notching a hole in the side of it would be no problem! I don't have a z32 CAS though. I really don't want to buy one just to find out they will not swap out though.

 

mtnickel - why is it that you can't use the 360 slot section? Is it just too much for the computer to process? That seems to be the case since the z32's run like crap with the OEM cas disk. So the larger diameter of the z31 disk still wouldn't be enough then... dammit! It seems my only way out is to hope that the z32 CAS bolts into the z31 dizzy so I can use the AEM disk.

 

I could try the cutting/punching or what have you to the oem Z31 disk to mimic the AEM disk, but poping those TINY TINY pieces out, then filling in the rest with JB weld or whatever, seems like a huge pain. May be the only way out though if the z32 cas doesn't bolt in. Ugh...

[SATAN]

mtnickel - One other thing. If you can't use the OEM wheel except for the 6 slot setion... If you look at the wheel from AEM, Does that mean it uses that one slot (which is all it has for valve timing) to tell TDC and then just counts each 30* crank slot on the wheel to know where exactly each cylinder is at and if it is on comp stroke or exhaust stroke?

 

For example: The one valve timing slot passes for TDC compression stroke on #1 cylinder. Then it counts 12 teeth (on a 24 tooth wheel) to know that #1 cylinder is at TDC again, but this time on exhaust stroke.

 

This seems to me like the only way it could be done for the computer to be able to fire injectors sequentially. Is that right?

[mtnickel]

That is exactly correct. One wheel/pattern (the 24 teeth) is a resolution wheel. The other (the one tooth) acts as a reset to TDC. It counts teeth there after in 60* increments to fire the cylinders.

 

I only know megasquirt closely, but it should be the same for AEM.

 

The 360 tooth wheel cannot be used because at 7000-8000 rpm, it causes too many "interrupts" (computer verbiage) that delay the system and cause errors and misfiring.

 

 

 

mtnickel - One other thing. If you can't use the OEM wheel except for the 6 slot setion... If you look at the wheel from AEM, Does that mean it uses that one slot (which is all it has for valve timing) to tell TDC and then just counts each 30* crank slot on the wheel to know where exactly each cylinder is at and if it is on comp stroke or exhaust stroke?

 

For example: The one valve timing slot passes for TDC compression stroke on #1 cylinder. Then it counts 12 teeth (on a 24 tooth wheel) to know that #1 cylinder is at TDC again, but this time on exhaust stroke.

 

This seems to me like the only way it could be done for the computer to be able to fire injectors sequentially. Is that right?

[Careless]

Ahhh. seems like a bitch to do. But I guess it's worth a shot if you got the time, seeing as you did it and I don't feel stupid for being the one to come up with some off-the-wall idea... at least one other person has attempted it! LOL

 

I think if I were to do it... I would mark it as you said, and find the middle of each hole and drill through there with the smallest bit at a very high speed with some cutting oil and light pressure. then use electrical component and surface mount snips to cut the remaining to the left and right of the hole very carefully, and then clean the inside top and bottom of the holes with some machinist files by positioning the disc on a piece of wood with a hole in it. center the disc hole over the wood hole and file slowly. the wood will stop it from vibrating while filing which would make it hard to do properly.

 

so you're saying even though it's hard it's not entirely impossible to get it to work well?

 

This would appear harder than it sounds. I attempted to do mine, but it's BLOODY hard to even see and count the slits. You'd be surprised. A good magnafying glass rig and vise to clamp wheel are essential.

Even cutting the notches is hard...I couldn't use and snippers, and resorted to using a dremel with my tiniest bit.

 

It ended up being too much work and I just called AEM to get one (i had to magically get a real Serial number for an RB AEM ECU for them to send me one though).

 

I have seen the mod done though.

If i were to do it again, i'd get a good scoring tool or good felt and mark out the entire thing before hand. Even still it's not easy. I was also trying to make a 72 tooth'd wheel with 2 missing teeth (to simulate a 36-1 crank wheel). Perhaps that's where my increased difficulty came.

 

 

On a side note, you can't use the OEM wheels for AEM. Not the 360 slit section anyways. If it's distributor based, you could probably use the 6 slits though.

 

Mark

[garvice]

I'll take some pictures and measurements tomorrow for you, It is currently 11pm here and I got other stuff on. Will get them for you in another 24 hours.

[SATAN]

I'll take some pictures and measurements tomorrow for you, It is currently 11pm here and I got other stuff on. Will get them for you in another 24 hours.

 

Its cool man, I'm not in a super hurry. It's not like I am waiting on anyone to put this thing in RIGHT NOW.

 

The other thing I was thinking of doing was buying a blank wheel from someone like Wolf EMS or something but the correct size for the z31 dizzy. Then just take it to a water jet cutting place and have them do it. It would probably cost me a decent amount to have them cut the blank wheel though.