Vindicare Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Hey guys, I was wondering if these rods fit in the too good too be true basket or are they worth taking the gamble for? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NISSAN-L24-L26-L28-MAXIMA-260Z-280ZX-5-139-H-BEAM-ROD_W0QQitemZ360014976605QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item360014976605 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank280zx Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Hey guys, I was wondering if these rods fit in the too good too be true basket or are they worth taking the gamble for? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NISSAN-L24-L26-L28-MAXIMA-260Z-280ZX-5-139-H-BEAM-ROD_W0QQitemZ360014976605QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item360014976605 Im taking the gambel for you. i bought a set, lets see what they will do.. ill post detailed pics of them once i get them. I will install them in my 89mm bore super charged turbocharged project. I will be 'only' running 20 psi and not more then 7K RPM to start. but it will be track driven, so can be a first test mule.. but im sure more of us will follow Then agian im also sporting an OBX hlsd witch some here think to be good and some hate. Hybrid will be the first to know when one is sticking out of the side of my engine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 fast z Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 These are basicly 280z rods, for the 130mm length. Sorta sucks to get a good rod to stroke ratio, as well as limits you on piston options for over the counter pistons. There is alot that needs to go into a good rod, as far as material, certs, prep, stress-reiliving, etc. Honestly, I have pushed lots of HP and TQ, and RPM through stock prepped rods, and never had a problem. I will stick to nissan rods, with good rod bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank280zx Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I agree on that brian! stock prepped rods are fine But i want to try at least with a 89MM piston that i will have custom make anyhow now i bought these, so lets see what it brings or shoots out from the side.. According to their reply they are lighter so that will bring down the rotating mass witch is worth something. however ill weigh my prepped 240 rod, and a stock 240 rod a stock 280 rod and these and post the details once their in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 fast z Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I agree, at these prices, its worth it to see them in person and look at the quality controll for yourself you know! I am thinking about buying a set just for that reason. They look decent, dont get me wrong. I wish you could get them in a longer length though you know. Although my monster DOHC motor I built with the short 280 rods, and I built my NA motor with 240 rods. I am basicly testing TONY's theror, that stock rods are only good for 100 FWHP per hole, we will see, HAHAHA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank280zx Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I agree, at these prices, its worth it to see them in person and look at the quality controll for yourself you know! I am thinking about buying a set just for that reason. They look decent, dont get me wrong. I wish you could get them in a longer length though you know. Although my monster DOHC motor I built with the short 280 rods, and I built my NA motor with 240 rods. I am basicly testing TONY's theror, that stock rods are only good for 100 FWHP per hole, we will see, HAHAHA. If he is right you will soon have two holes near one bore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 These are basicly 280z rods, for the 130mm length. Sorta sucks to get a good rod to stroke ratio, as well as limits you on piston options for over the counter pistons. There is alot that needs to go into a good rod, as far as material, certs, prep, stress-reiliving, etc. Honestly, I have pushed lots of HP and TQ, and RPM through stock prepped rods, and never had a problem. I will stick to nissan rods, with good rod bolts. I agree. I'd love to have a good set up Carillo or similar rods in my L28 but the cost was too high. I decided to prep a set if 133mm L24 OEM rods by polishing, shotpeening, magnafluxing, and using ARP bolts. So far I've had no issues. I rarely spin my engine past 6500rpm. Sometimes in first gear it will rev quickly to 7K or above but rarely in the other gears. If you get to a point where your engine needs to rev to 7000rpm or higher then good H beam rods would be my recommendation. You'll probably need an aftermarket damper at that point as well. I'm not saying the stock rods won't work at 7000rpm or above. I just think better rods will be less prone to failure at the higher RPMs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 fast z Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Yea, we will see, It is TORQUE and CYLINDER pressure that cause the high force, NOT HP. I MAY agree, that with over 600 ft lbs of torque at the ground you might see problems, but not 100hp per hole on fwhp. My motor makes alot higher HP than torque, so I belive I can get 700 RWHP with stock rods. With a 17.5% drivetrain loss thats about 822 FWHP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 fast z Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 As you can see by my dyno graph and videos I have posted BOTH of my stroker motors see above 8k, and my revlimeter on my turbo motor is set at 8250, and I have bounced off of it many times, with no rod failure, Agreed, I do have good dampers on both engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 As you can see by my dyno graph and videos I have posted BOTH of my stroker motors see above 8k, and my revlimeter on my turbo motor is set at 8250, and I have bounced off of it many times, with no rod failure, Agreed, I do have good dampers on both engines. Wow, that makes me feel better about my rods. That's a lot of power/revs on OEM rod's. For me, if I built an engine like yours I'd want ensure as much longevity and reliability as my budget allowed. Using quality H beam rods may prove not necessary, but I'd like the insurance "just in case". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 fast z Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 The thing is, most guys who have built good motors on this site, have more money in their motors than I do, Plus I like doing the things that most say you cant do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 The thing is, most guys who have built good motors on this site, have more money in their motors than I do, Unfortunately most of us don't have a machine shop at our disposal...Just if. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank280zx Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Yea, we will see, It is TORQUE and CYLINDER pressure that cause the high force, NOT HP. I MAY agree, that with over 600 ft lbs of torque at the ground you might see problems, I wonder if i will see that number!.. but with the way my head is ported, the special isky grind for my application and the fact i run an SC and a turbo .. it should be Torque on tap.. andhe what can i say im a gadget guy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 fast z Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Ha, yea really. The thing is, I can make lots of HP at LOWWWWWWW boost, which was my goal initially, and a cross flow head to boot! I am about 5 days from startup again, as I had to order lash caps, and wont be here till thursday. I tell you what, this motor sure is alot more complicated than my silver car. NO room with the DOHC setup, especially with twin turbs, etc. It makes me want to work on my silver car more and more, haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 fast z Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Unfortunately most of us don't have a machine shop at our disposal...Just if. I guess everyone has there own adavantages, I started machining when I was 7, so yea, I can say I was fortunate in that respect, but with it also comes alot of hard earned work, its not just play with z Cars, Mack can attest to that, has he has seen how hard I have to work for what I have. Some guys own paint shops, so they have pretty cars, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank280zx Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 But you have to agree 550g a piece sounds good.. use some lighter pistons and you have some advantage there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 fast z Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Agreed, that is intriging. When do you expect to have the twin charged motor running? Are you coming to the states this year for the west coast nationals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 It's not TONY's theory, it's Electramotive's Testing that came up with that number. Stock rods were failing before the end of testing, so they went aftermarket to be able to run to the end of some endurance events. NHRA rods last one run, then they are replaced. Everything has a limit. Be careful of giving an endurance O.K. when you aren't putting the things on a Dyno and holding peak torque or horsepower for 25 hours..... It's like saying a stock L28ET is good for 500HP. It is! For how long is anybody's guess. I know at 350HP a simple N/A N42 Engine is still good at 75K miles. Most stock engines will run in developmental testing on an engine dyno at either peak torque or peak horsepower for 200 hours and then be wear-checked. For the street that is considered 'acceptable' testing. For an industrial engine in stationary service it's not even close! Street setups are notoriously deceptive on what they really tell you about longevity, people rarely have them long term to do actual measurements. As for rpms, stock rods go higher in RPM's than most people will think they do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank280zx Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Agreed, that is intriging. When do you expect to have the twin charged motor running? Are you coming to the states this year for the west coast nationals? Yes i will .. i hope to have it running before june! and my hopes are to ship the car to MSA 09 .. and autox Now i just need to work out pistons any suggestion what to use that is light with this piston ? Let me see if i have this right, and im thinking out loud, so correct me if i,m wrong. if normally you would have a pin height of 38mm and KA pistons have 34mm so that rules those out as with the already 3mm longer 240 rods you still have negative deck height with a stock 79mm crank (-1.35mm) vs a LD crank (0.65mm) These rods with 89MM KA's would give - 4.32mm at TDC.. not what you would want for numerous reasons. So basically with an LD crank you would be at roughly -2mm witch would not be good for compression ratios. With dished pistons that would drop it well into the 6.s and flats somewhere in the 7s Block height (L28) 207.85 Rod Length (L24) 133 Rod Length (L28) 130.2 L28 Crank 79 LD28 Crank 83 Piston Dia (L28) 86 Piston Pin Height (L28) 38.1 A KA piston Diameter 89 Pin Height 34 Basically you would need a stock 38 mm pin height piston eliminating the easy and available KA option. anybody have a suggestion what piston to use? as most are made for use with the 240 rods from what i have read. So would the Ross set work? anybody know the pin height on this ? http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/PEM04/10-4080 What would anybody here suggest piston wise? I might aswel go all custom moving the rings down from crown and get 88mm or 89's but im pretty much in the dark on this continent where to go and say; " Hey i need forged flat tops with this bore and that pin height I know (heard) you can get v8 pistons and that would be cheaper to state your building v8. anybody has experience on this? Brain can you help ? Anyhow Tony we don't know what these will do either .. maybe ad should take em to spa to see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Kameari makes an 85mm crank, from what I understand, wouldn't that solve the deck height problem as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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