cockerstar Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 I hope that you really go through with this whole project because I really want to see how it turns out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 The engine is heavy, but if you cut out some of that oil (highly recommended with an oil cooler and a smaller oil pan) you're back down to 550lbs. Tranny weight ends up under the driver. it's low, and supports 50/50 weight distribution directly. It's heavier than an ls1, and is a little farther forward, but I'm at peace with that. Engine parts I need are: CBR throttle bodies custom exhaust manifold reground cams (only need two!) stronger valve springs (basically just figure out the rates and order them non-engine-specifically, they're cheap) There really isn't much "aftermarket" that's going to help me, other than a good clutch (which is just what I'd need for an LS1, for example). You're right. The Jag is huge. It does push center of gravity slightly farther forward, or I can hack up the firewall a little (which is what most BMW swappers have to do). I'm ok with a little front-biased weight. That's relatively easy to make up for with fiberglass or carbon fiber fenders and hood (which are shockingly heavy in stock configuration). You do have good arguments, and from a purely logical standpoint I agree. If this were all about logical choices and getting the best engineered car possible, I'd start with a different car altogether. I'd get something with perfect weight distribution, the right engine from the factory, and an uncracked dash. Fortunately for me, I love the Jag v12 (far more than the BMW v12 for reasons unknown other than those who practice dark magic). All arguments aside, I really do need to know the spline count on the engine, so I can figure out exactly what transmission I can fit on it. I'm fairly sure that the Viper t56 will fit, but input shaft diameter/length/spline-count are all factors that I can't confirm. I could really use some help before I start gathering parts (because I want to make sure they're the right parts ahead of time). I weighed mine using 4 bathroom scales back when I was considering the setup. As pictured here, it is drained of oil, and does not have any of the intake or FI parts included. The tranny is a T-45 out of a newer 4.6 V-8 mustang, and weighed about 100-120 pounds (I could pick it up and carry it with a bit of effort). The cart was probably around 30 pounds or so. Total weight of the whole enchilada was 795 pounds, so the empty engine by itself has to be well over 600 pounds. The T-45 is just held on by a small C-clamp in the picture, my plan was to cut and section the bellhousing on it with a bellhousing from the V-12 to make it fit. An adapter plate probably would have worked as well, as many of the holes were close to matching up. Here's a pic of the same setup alongside the Z for an idea of how things will line up. Putting the shifter in the stock location will let you run the engine without butchering the firewall much, if at all. The downside is that you end up with fully a foot of engine hanging over the front X member, so the car will auto-x like a school bus. The wow factor upon opening the hood though will likely be priceless (: I don't want to talk you out of doing the swap. On the contrary I'd love to see someone succeed with this setup. I'm just trying to pass on all the info I learned when I was gearing up to do this with my own car. For me, the end result has always been performance, with cool factor running a close second. While the Jag is hard to beat as far as cool factor is concerned, the performance side is kind of lacking. IIRC the HE versions in the later cars were good for about 310 HP. The lack of aftermarket performance parts will likely restrict it's final HP numbers to something pretty close to the factory numbers. On a 600+ pound engine, that number just didn't work for me, when a lighter, smaller SBC would make significantly more torque and horsepower while requiring much less custom fabrication to make drivetrain components work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ColinA Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 You might find the info you're after here: http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/products/T-56.asp I would also recommend the book, "How To Rebuild and Modify Your Manual Transmission" by Robert Bowen (Motorbooks International). he has a very good overview of the T5 and a complete and well illustrated rebuild. I considered the Jag swap myself after a co-worker offered a 91 5.3L he was replacing with SB Chevy. It would be great to open the hood and see a V12 but as others have noticed that engine is huge and a Z isn't. Don,t let that put you off. The Jag V12 is one of the smoothest motors ever built and "in full song" a joy to hear. Extra power is readily available in the intake system. Jaguar built the motor to be quiet and refined. Opening up (i.e. throwing out) the airfilter boxes and their tiny intake pipes is a great place to start. They probably won't fit between the wheel wells anyway. Go with a slightly larger throttle body and replace the exhaust. Your power will come up significantly and you can avoid most of the really expensive parts. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse OBrien Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 Don't let my lack of recent response throw you off: this project is in full swing. I've been helping my roommate to find a Z, and we just laid hands on our first project: 1972 240z with a broken window (the only rust is minor, surface rust) and a presumably non-running engine (hasn't been driven in 6 months due to carb misalignment) which will receive a carbed 351, in all likelihood. I'll most likely be documenting that first, then my v12 swap. Mine takes a bit more research before starting, so it makes sense to start with his more "traditional" swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Sweet project. Where you at in the bay area? It'd be sweet to check out the progress now and then once you get started. As far a the T-5 goes, yea they're not the strongest tranny, but like many trannys they've proven that as long as you're not doing huge 4k drops at the strip with slicks it can take quite a lot of torque before going boom. Plus then there's also the aftermarket gearsets which help a ton. I think the T56 should be fine though. There's some pretty insane vipers out there running stock transmissions, though I honestly don't know how different thier T56 is compared to the other cars it came in. As to the 5.0 speculation. I believe da-man. 700hp would be under 600 to the wheels, which has been done on the 5.0 motor before. I've even seen 400hp dynos on stock short blocks. People assume that as soon as you reach 500+hp on the 5.0 that you have a time bomb, yet there are plenty of people on both sides of the fence with motors that did and didn't blow up. A guy I used to hang out with had a mustang with a 351W bored/stroked to 427, supercharged. The only time I got to see him dyno he maxed out his injectors at 800hp at 3500RPM. I never heard official numbers but last I heard he was well over the 1000hp mark.... on a 427 small block that most guys say shouldn't be done due to block strength. Though I defend unbelievable numbers, I'll also so it doesn't mean it's easy or that anyone can/should do it. Just that there's always the oddball cases of someone who DID. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse OBrien Posted February 24, 2008 Author Share Posted February 24, 2008 Sweet project. Where you at in the bay area? It'd be sweet to check out the progress now and then once you get started. I'm in Vallejo, but working in Oakland, by Lake Merritt. We're off to a start on my roommate's project, which is getting a Ford 351. Pics located here: http://picasaweb.google.com/drummingpariah/240z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Sweet, I live in richmond, work in fairfield. I'm usually over in vallejo/benicia all the time. The GF lives over there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staledale Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Try this thread below, start at the top you'll find a web site that sells a Jag bellhousing for the 5sp, also DOT who had a V12 Z car has his web site of this thread. He was giving me instructs ion on building a bellhousing for a six speed. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?p=809308#post809308 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ZeOne Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 No one appears to have thrown this out there, so I will. Here is a website that offers a very simple, though it is a bit costly, option for how to convert that 5.3 to a manual. They also offer a bit of performance for it, but I don't thing any of that will be help full for you. http://www.thedrivenman.com/jaguar/XJS/index.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse OBrien Posted March 20, 2008 Author Share Posted March 20, 2008 Sweet, I live in richmond, work in fairfield. I'm usually over in vallejo/benicia all the time. The GF lives over there. I go through Richmond every day! I work in Oakland, so I end up passing by Richmond on my way to the El Cerrito Del Norte BART (yeah, the bus passes right by Richmond; apparantly it's too good for your BART...). My project has changed considerably (but is no less aggressive). I bought an EF CRX, and the plan is to swap in an f20c (out of an s2000) and convert it to RWD. It's arguably more extreme, but we'll see how it works out. The engine bay may not be long enough (front-back) to fit the motor in, so I may have to scrap that idea and go with a 13b or 13btt instead. I don't know why I have this obsessions with a RWD CRX, but I do. Anyway, without further ado, here's the car as I purchased it: and here's a link to the gallery: http://picasaweb.google.com/Jesse.B.OBrien/CRX20 More to come on my site, and if you guys want, I'll update you all directly. Comments on my site are always appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Have you BEEN to the richmond BART? You'd understand. Even people like me who grew up in richmond just go to the del norte station. Still sounds like a sweet project. My only grip is the CRX is an extremely short wheel base and might be hard to control if not setup well. I think the F20C would fit as long as you get the engine as far back as posible (probably have to fab a new trans tunnel) and cut out the radiator support and installed a new one putting the radiator a little farther forward. Do you have dimensions for the F20C? I want to go measure my CRX's engine bay now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse OBrien Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 Have you BEEN to the richmond BART? You'd understand. Even people like me who grew up in richmond just go to the del norte station. Still sounds like a sweet project. My only grip is the CRX is an extremely short wheel base and might be hard to control if not setup well. I think the F20C would fit as long as you get the engine as far back as posible (probably have to fab a new trans tunnel) and cut out the radiator support and installed a new one putting the radiator a little farther forward. Do you have dimensions for the F20C? I want to go measure my CRX's engine bay now... I started taking some measurements on my CRX engine bay, but I don't have any hard numbers on the f20c so I wasn't going to bother. I'm pretty sure the f20c is around 28" long and 26" tall, which really is pushing well past the limits of the CRX engine bay. I'm trying to come up with ways around it, and there is actually a good amount of space to move the radiator forward, but the front of the engine bay is way too short to fit that engine. It's okay though, I've heard tell that the 13b is a smaller, more compact engine, and I just know they can put out power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Problaby even have enough room for a cosmo 3 rotor, but those are pretty damn expensive. What are your plans for the rear of the car? Just cut out the entire back and start fresh? What suspension/diff donors are you looking into? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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