Midnight-280Z Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 My car will be goin to the shop next month to get some engine work done (88-99 300zxt ecu swap with the Z31 map sensor, 465cc injectors, Pallnet fuel rail, n42 intake manifold and 240sx throttle body upgrade i even might upgrade my intercooler, intercooler pipings and turbo...not sure yet). It now time to make the beast stop.....Well, I have searched and searched and searched. I have almost decided on which rear disc conversion i want but still confused about certain things. First question- With the toyo calipers up front with vented rotors isn't the rear disc upgrade from MM too much? The rears will be almost an inch bigger than the fronts...too much rear brakes? Second Question- Can I use MM rear disc brackets with different rotors? (Most likely i wil need to know which calipers will be goin with it) Third question- 82-83 280zx disc conversion have problems? I hear that people have been running into some issues after the install was completed is this true? Would it be better to run the 79-81 280zx set-up instead and if so can MM brackets work with this? Forth qeustion- With around 450 bucks what would you do for the rear disc conversion? Thanks so much. Hybridz have really helped my project moved along with all the help and info. you guys are great. I would like my brake work to be done at the same time my car goes to the shop to simplify things a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280Z Turbo Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 1.) With Toyota 4x4 S12W calipers up front, the rear disc upgrade is not enough. I'd recommend using the smaller piston S12+8 front calipers. Remember, with the MM brake upgrade, all 4 rotors come off of the exact same car! It uses 84-85 non turbo rotors all around. 2.) Why do you want to use different rotors? 280ZX rotors won't work easily with the MM brackets and they're smaller. 3.) The MM setup uses 240SX calipers, not 280ZX calipers. 4.) I couldn't do it for $300. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 ...rears will be almost an inch bigger than the fronts...too much rear brakes? Second Question- Can I use MM rear disc brackets with different rotors? (Most likely i wil need to know which calipers will be goin with it) Third question- 82-83 280zx disc conversion have problems? I hear that people have been running into some issues after the install was completed is this true? Would it be better to run the 79-81 280zx set-up instead and if so can MM brackets work with this?... Rotor diameter is only one factor in brake design. Caliper piston size is another factor. A larger rotor with a smaller piston can in essence provide the same braking force. A different rotor may push the caliper axially and radially out from the bracket's design, so you're more than likely going to run into a problem with this. The only ZX rear caliper issues I'm aware of is the piston getting stuck (internal design flaw in my opinion) which has not been demonstrated with the 240SX calipers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardBlack Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I think some ppl need to realize that even the properly refreshed stock brakes with stainless lines can yield you a full lockup pretty easily. Even aside from the whole balance issue is the fact that you can simply overkill your brakes unless you need an extreme amount of thermal endurance and can properly manage your footwork to avoid locking your tires all the time. That, or you plan to drastically increase weight and moderately increase tire dimensions from the original stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardBlack Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 BTW, I would source the parts aside from the brackets yourself. The rotors and pads are easy enough to buy from your local Autozone, etc. Calipers are easy to find at a JY and the rebuild kit is ~$25 from Autozone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280Z Turbo Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 I think some ppl need to realize that even the properly refreshed stock brakes with stainless lines can yield you a full lockup pretty easily. Even aside from the whole balance issue is the fact that you can simply overkill your brakes unless you need an extreme amount of thermal endurance and can properly manage your footwork to avoid locking your tires all the time. That, or you plan to drastically increase weight and moderately increase tire dimensions from the original stuff. That's true, but there's a reason performance cars don't use solid rotors and drums anymore. Even my '02 Focus hatch (which is lighter and less powerful than my Z) uses vented rotors in front. They didn't put those vented rotors on for "bling-bling". I don't buy this idea that you can ruin your brakes with Toyota calipers and 240SX rear calipers. By modern standards, those are not even "Big" brakes. They are simply adaquete. People do this upgrade all the time with good results. That being said, stock brakes in good shape are perfectly fine for normal driving, drag racing, and Solo II autocross. It's on a road course where you can appreciate upgraded brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight-280Z Posted February 15, 2008 Author Share Posted February 15, 2008 so are you guys suggesting that i go with the toyo calipers set up in front and stick to the drums in the rear? pay day is today so i can make purchases . i'm 100 % sure that i want teh toyo set up with vented rotors in front. not sure what to do with the rears.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowtiez Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 I don't know what kind of budget you have but I recommend the Wilwood Arizona Z Car conversion for the front for about $900 plus another $100 for on car pro cut machine work. I added a cockpit adjustable brake balance and DOT 4 fluid with stainless lines. A larger ZX master cylinder is also necessary. Take a look at JTR's discussion on the subject of rear drum brakes. Unless you are an all out road racer, rear drums are fine. I am experiencing no fade in a 20 minute session at Hallett, OK and it is a nine turn 1.9 mile course. (I am running over 140 mph on the front straight and braking at the next to last marker for a 70 mph sweeper.) BTW: The Wilwood caliper clearance on my 16 inch front wheels is very tight. I doubt if they would work on 15 inch wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280Z Turbo Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 so are you guys suggesting that i go with the toyo calipers set up in front and stick to the drums in the rear? pay day is today so i can make purchases . i'm 100 % sure that i want teh toyo set up with vented rotors in front. not sure what to do with the rears.. I wouldn't do that. Your brake bias will be pretty far out of whack. I'd sooner just buy good pads/shoes and brake fluid for stock brakes than just do one end of the car. The only plus side of a Wilwood or Toyota front + rear drum setup is that your rear shoes will probably last forever! On a semi-related note, has anyone ever used stock 2 piston calipers with vented front rotors. If you used some kind of special spacers between the two halves of the caliper, you could have cooler brakes without disturbing stock bias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowtiez Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 True. I have my adjustable bias maxed to the front to avoid rear lock up. The back brakes shoes look like new. I don't know what is going to be required when I stick the Infinity Q45 differential set up under the car. The big plus side to the Wilwood conversion is that the car consistently stops like it ran into a brick wall after twenty minutes of hot lapping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six_Shooter Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 What is MM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdown inGA Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 What is MM? http://www.modern-motorsports.com/ There you go:wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six_Shooter Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 http://www.modern-motorsports.com/ There you go:wink: Thank you. I have been to that site before, just didn't put it together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight-280Z Posted February 16, 2008 Author Share Posted February 16, 2008 well, i just got all the stuff i need for the front brake upgrade =)....Toyo calipers, spacers, vented rotor, brake pads......Now what to do with the rear? I got about 400-450 to spend on the rear. don't want to blow a 1000 on the brake system because i don't need all that yet. maybe in the future but not now. i want rear disc brakes that work and compliment my fronts. nothing crazy. From the help i'm getting it seems it would be better to keep my drum brakes...i don't want drum..=( i want to see my rotors behind my rims =P. Thanks for all the help. You guys have been great like usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280Z Turbo Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 well, i just got all the stuff i need for the front brake upgrade =)....Toyo calipers, spacers, vented rotor, brake pads......Now what to do with the rear? I got about 400-450 to spend on the rear. don't want to blow a 1000 on the brake system because i don't need all that yet. maybe in the future but not now. i want rear disc brakes that work and compliment my fronts. nothing crazy. From the help i'm getting it seems it would be better to keep my drum brakes...i don't want drum..=( i want to see my rotors behind my rims =P. Thanks for all the help. You guys have been great like usual. Modern Motorsports 240SX caliper kit. I'd buy the whole kit except for the rotors from him, tirerack has 300ZX Brembo rotors for $22 a piece. See if you can get some decent 240SX calipers from the junkyard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardBlack Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 well, i just got all the stuff i need for the front brake upgrade =)....Toyo calipers, spacers, vented rotor, brake pads......Now what to do with the rear? I got about 400-450 to spend on the rear. don't want to blow a 1000 on the brake system because i don't need all that yet. maybe in the future but not now. i want rear disc brakes that work and compliment my fronts. nothing crazy. From the help i'm getting it seems it would be better to keep my drum brakes...i don't want drum..=( i want to see my rotors behind my rims =P. Thanks for all the help. You guys have been great like usual. Well, as they comment on some threads, the 240SX caliper setup works with the S12+8 fronts, but some complain of not getting enough rear bias back if they have the S12W (vented) fronts. I went with S12+8/240SX setup. Modern Motorsports' caliper brackets are nice, but I bought the rest of the stuff from Autozone myself. Beware that Modern Motorsports can take a while (at times) to respond to emails. I had several weeks of no response but I got my stuff in the end and everything looked great. I hear it happens with him from time to time as it isn't his primary job and he travels a lot for the other one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedNeckZ Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 I have the early 280ZX rear brake conversion on my Z at this time. Put them on in 1995 and haven't had a problem with them to this date. I started in front with the S-12 Calibers and then went to the S-12W w/300ZX rotors. Used to race at Stapleton and Second Creek in Denver, CO. I had a problem of boiling brake fluid at both tracks. After changing to disc brakes which I put on. I got better braking and cooler running brakes. The boiling brake fluid was not a problem any more. The 300ZX setup uses a flat plate mounting system. Several have been shown on this site. It fits under my 15" wheels and under the 16" wheels we have on it now. I have changed pads at least twice since putting them on. I have not tried the 240SX setup and can not tell you any thing about it. It has been used by a lot of members on this site. So go with what you want. The only thing I did different was in taking out the rear brake bias valve. I took it out and moved the line over and reconnected it. Did not use a adjustable system in the line. I like the way it works as is. Good Luck with your choice, Rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe d. Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 well, i just got all the stuff i need for the front brake upgrade =)....Toyo calipers, spacers, vented rotor, brake pads......Now what to do with the rear? I got about 400-450 to spend on the rear. don't want to blow a 1000 on the brake system because i don't need all that yet. maybe in the future but not now. i want rear disc brakes that work and compliment my fronts. nothing crazy. From the help i'm getting it seems it would be better to keep my drum brakes...i don't want drum..=( i want to see my rotors behind my rims =P. Thanks for all the help. You guys have been great like usual. I have the rear disc conversion brackets you need! just pm me for more info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZR8ED Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Lots of different good ideas here. The main questions is how do you want to drive your car? what is the capability of the car? suspension mods? engine mods? As for some seat of the pants experience... I have had the s12w calipers and 300zx vented rotors up front and stocko drums out back and SS fles lines for about 14 years give or take. At the initial install of the brakes the car was a mid 14 second 1/4 mile with a modified suspension. (springs/shocks/swaybars, and bushings.) 16" wheels with good yokohama tires. 225/50/16, and 245/45/16's I was able to go from 5 hot laps at my local roadcourse to 24+ laps (the plus is that my track time session expired.) NO brake fade, and I pounded the car very hard. The track was a pretty tight as well. I still have the same setup, except for an extra 150 ft/lbs of torque, and 17's with 315's out back (see sig.) I have just this week purchased the MM rear disk conversion, with the 11.4" rotors. I will locally source the 240sx calipers. So other than the calipers, I bought the package deal to reduce hassles. BTW with the 315's, I can't lock my back wheels. No problem locking the fronts. I even have a proportioning valve set at 50/50 currently. I think I have some unused extra braking capability in the rear. So I think you can see my suggestion to you. I have thought and researched this for several years on and off, and have been looking for an improved system, that is reliable/proven, and the swap seems to be as hassle free as it can be for a brake swap. My car is mainly a street car with some strip and road course events, so a major brake up grade (MM's ultimate setup) is more overkill and bling as oposed to useful/needed. Good luck with your project. Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight-280Z Posted March 14, 2008 Author Share Posted March 14, 2008 Tell me how you like the MM rear disc set up, I was planning on them too....but some things came up and i have totally changed the direction of my project....Not the brakes but i am thinking of getting rid of my full L28ET swap (Engine, Tranny, Wiring, Intercooler, pipings, Blow off valve) although it is goin to take some time since i don't have a garage and its in my car now....Doing a RB25DET swap...newer, more efficient, and parts are somewhat not over priced. I want to know how you like your brakes though....Seems like it goin to be teh exact set-up i will have. so your feed back would be awesome...Thanks again everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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