Guest CaliGuy Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Hi all! This is my 1st post here. I'm currently the owner of a 06 Civic Si...I'm really more of a Honda kinda guy, but...living here in Smog-nazi California I'm looking for something that doesn't need to be smogged, which brought me here. I've always loved the looks of the old Z's, so I started to look around here... I'm now fairly convinced that my next project will be a 70 z with a SBC...I have several questions to ask, please excuse my total ignorance! I have looked through many of the threads here, but really need some good general info! I'm a mod at 8thcivic.com, so I know how irritating it is to hear the same questions over and over again, but, again, please bear with me! I'm looking to do a SBC conversion. I'm looking for 700+whp (yes, I want SERIOUS power!), I want to go with a manual tranny and spend the least $ possible...Yes, I realize this will be costly however... If someone could recommend a good crate motor that could do the job that would be great! I'm not at all be adverse to using an SC if it'll fit under the hood... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 my first reaction after reading that was......I wonder IF I can get some of those pills hes taking???? but lets assume your serious , the 700 rear wheel hp sbc engines going to cost you easily 9K plus, and thats going to require about 860 fly wheel hp,and it will probably use a turbo or nitrous, the matching drivetrain , suspension, brakes and mandatory roll cage could easily exceed that cost , I seriously doubt you could assemble a SAFE and reasonably stable combo for UNDER 18K so if your willing to factor that into your budget we can proceed,with a semi realistic descusion on parts and component sellection, if thats totally out of the budget your goals need to be more realisticly match your budget, and ID point out that it won,t be a really street driveable car in that its unlikely to be ideal for longer trips, and a BIG BLOCK CHEVY BASED ENGINE will probably be far more cost effective http://www.ohiocrank.com/enginekits.html http://www.ultrastreet.net/engines.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COZY Z COLE Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Hi all! This is my 1st post here. I'm currently the owner of a 06 Civic Si...I'm really more of a Honda kinda guy On this site I suggest you come out of the clouds and get your feet on the ground before proceding with your new project.... LARRY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CaliGuy Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Ok, thanks for the replies. After I wrote this last night I did some more searching and came to the realization that 700 whp is probably unrealistic (as was pointed out). Let me revise what I would want to do: I would be happy with 400 whp if the car could be streetable. This will be a weekend/fun car and not a daily driver by any means. I have done a bunch of searching and, although there is obviously some VERY knowledgeable people here I can't really find what I'm looking for (i.e. what would be a good engine/tranny combo). I realize more info would be helpful. The engine I would want to run would be carburated (I don't want to deal with an EMS's), I am not opposed to running an SC or TC. I would like to spend ~20k on this project with the car included in that price. Also, I looked around quite a bit, but has anyone here posted up a swap DIY? Just so I can get an idea of what is involved...and yes, I will be ordering the JTR book... Again, sorry for my ignorance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 you want a fun combo that can be built on a reasonabe budget? this should get you started http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90682 http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83410 http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93686 http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91464 http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87305 http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81799 http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94275 http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80380 http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90950 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 want a PARTS LIST for a DECENT COMBO, just have the heads sellected have about 10.7:1 cpr heads http://www.airflowresearch.com/210sbc_rh.php intake http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=HLY%2D300%2D110&autoview=sku cam http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CRN%2D110921&autoview=sku short block http://www.competitionproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SBTP383F lifters http://www.competitionproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=651080DL rockers http://www.competitionproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=1106-8 carb http://www.competitionproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=1563010 nitrous kit http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=NOS%2D02101NOS&N=700+400047+115&autoview=sku use full length 1 3/4" headers and a full 3" exhaust with an (X) use a manual trans and a 4.11:1 rear gear with a 30 LB steel flywheel, a decent CLUTCH use a 7-8 qt baffled oil pan and moroso windage screen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 maybe one of the computer savy guys can post a desktop dyno curve from engine dyno software results on that combo, but it will produce more power than your likely to be able to use even before you hit the giggle gas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CaliGuy Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 you want a fun combo that can be built on a reasonabe budget? this should get you started http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90682 http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83410 http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93686 http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91464 http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87305 http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81799 http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94275 http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80380 http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90950 Thank you kind sir:cheers: Looks like I have a LOT of reading ahead of me Is an engine build something you would recommend for the neophyte? I have done some engine work before (air cooled VW many years ago) and I'm willing to take my time. I have 0 experience with American cars or their engines... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 IF you read all the info posted and use the basic combo I listed YOULL need to determine YOUR skills level, tools and work area, before starting but it appears giving the parts list to a decent local builder and having him assemble the parts might be the best route for you to follow, the problem will be that most engine shops will want to substitute cheaper and inferior parts to cut THIER costs, USE THIER parts and raise THIER PROFITS the results won,t be the same, unless you stick to the list IF some kind computer skilled soul will post the desk top dyno or engine analyzer results youll see why I suggested that combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Just goes to show you that you have to be careful what you ask for, as you might get it! :lmao: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six_Shooter Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 700 streetable HP is becoming more and more common. Usually through the using of a power adder. Take a look at the cars that run in Hot Rod's Drag Week, many of those cars are in the high 3 digit and into the 4 digit HP, and they HAVE to complete the 1000 mile (or so) trip between 4 tracks over 5 days, and RACE each day (The first rack is also the last track), no support vehicles, no trailers, must be driven between the tracks, and if a car does break down, must be repaired using road side enginuity, to continue. It may not be cheap to do, but it is possible, that's actually one of my plans for my Z is to build it for Drag Week and/or the Pump Gas drags, I'm leaning towards Drag Week though, closer and shows that it is a true street car. If you really wanted 700 HP (I'm assuming crank here), you can easily build a 450 to 550 HP LSx (Carb intake manifolds are available), and then spray it (nitrous) the remaining 150 to 250 HP. I wouldn't be so quick to throw out the idea of EFI though, there are many available aftermarket systems that are easily tuned, much easier than the Honda ECUs, and make for much better street manners with the use of EFI. A turbo or super is also easier with EFI than with a carb, although there have been some impressive blow through carb systems show up recently in some racing circles, most notable a twin turbo 512 ci (IIRC) blow through using an 850 CFM carb (IIRC) that put out over 2000 HP on an engine dyno. The build took more than your entire budget for your car in just the engine alone. For the budget you have, a stout LSx with spray would probably be more than enough fun for you, heck even without the spray it would be lots of fun just trying to keep it straight, and plant the power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CaliGuy Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 700 streetable HP is becoming more and more common. Usually through the using of a power adder. Take a look at the cars that run in Hot Rod's Drag Week, many of those cars are in the high 3 digit and into the 4 digit HP, and they HAVE to complete the 1000 mile (or so) trip between 4 tracks over 5 days, and RACE each day (The first rack is also the last track), no support vehicles, no trailers, must be driven between the tracks, and if a car does break down, must be repaired using road side enginuity, to continue. It may not be cheap to do, but it is possible, that's actually one of my plans for my Z is to build it for Drag Week and/or the Pump Gas drags, I'm leaning towards Drag Week though, closer and shows that it is a true street car. If you really wanted 700 HP (I'm assuming crank here), you can easily build a 450 to 550 HP LSx (Carb intake manifolds are available), and then spray it (nitrous) the remaining 150 to 250 HP. I wouldn't be so quick to throw out the idea of EFI though, there are many available aftermarket systems that are easily tuned, much easier than the Honda ECUs, and make for much better street manners with the use of EFI. A turbo or super is also easier with EFI than with a carb, although there have been some impressive blow through carb systems show up recently in some racing circles, most notable a twin turbo 512 ci (IIRC) blow through using an 850 CFM carb (IIRC) that put out over 2000 HP on an engine dyno. The build took more than your entire budget for your car in just the engine alone. For the budget you have, a stout LSx with spray would probably be more than enough fun for you, heck even without the spray it would be lots of fun just trying to keep it straight, and plant the power. Is there a conversion kit available for the LSx's and the 240? Are there any PnP ecu's for the LSx? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six_Shooter Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 There are LSx mount kits available, I'm not sure where to get them from, but a search for "LS1 mount" or "LSx mounts" or variations of that should get you the info, also check through the stickies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rytherwr Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Hey, CaliGuy, Not to beat a dead horse, but if you are on a tight budget, you can't get there from here (your original thoughts) and you need to read ALL of Grumpy's info and talk to a LOT of folks who have the technical know-how (and there are lots on this site), revise your goal, decide if you have the skills to pursue and have FUN! If you want to throw out the budget, then all is possible. There are a bunch of $100K-$150K, purpose-built hotrods out there that put out 700-1000 streetable hp (although you can't generally get it to the ground on the street with street tire pressures) and present a total package (chassis, engine, trans, driveshaft, rear end, etc) that will make you grin stupidly most of the time...) By streetable, I mean pump gas, idle fairly well, do not overheat, you can run your air conditioning and heater, etc., etc. Now if we could only hit the lottery........) Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firm Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Not to go off the subject a bit, but could I be the spawn of this new project idea? I look forward to seeing what you do with the s30 man. If you actually go through with this we'll definitely have to meet up sometime and have a little fun, get a photoshoot going, etc. I've had a blast here and have learned quite a few things, there are definitely a lot of knowledgeable people here (not to mention a lot of nice cars). I've already learned quite a bit and met a few really cool people, and I've only been to one local meet so far. Anyways, I'll let you get back to your search for knowledge. Enjoy your stay bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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