BLKMGK Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Yeah, okay I'm close to ordering. However looking at some of the truck headers for late model GMCs and at the S10 swap headwers I still can't help but think that a swept back design would fit and be better flowing with an exit back near th efirewall instead of requiring a hard turn just under the collector - ala streetrod. Has anyone ever gotten a peak at the S10 swap or late model SBC truck headers? I can get them fairly cheap in Jeg's but I'm not sure I want to spend $100+ unless there's a very good chance it'll fit. I'm think 1 5/8ths primaries if I have to buy street rod headers.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Ahhh, you better be careful here; that is a cramped area in the Z engine bay and not too many headers will fit it. Better be careful, or you'll wind up spending unnecessary $$$. Didn't you mention a while back that you were going with block huggers??? I thought it was you, BLKMGK.... David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Yeah, not sure if theres room. I won't say it definately won't fit, but wouldn't it have to go over the slave cylinder pretty much? Not sure if theres room to do that, not with any sizable pipe without a bunch of whoop ass on the transmission tunnel, unless the manifold your refering to makes some sort of really sharp turn headed down at the firewall. Any pictures of the manifold in question? Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted March 28, 2001 Author Share Posted March 28, 2001 I've not mounted up the slave yet but I've got a pretty good idea as to how it'll look. I guess having seen the FOX Mustang headers in a Z it just seemed like the swept back SBC ones ought to work too. Headers is one of the areas I keep going back and forth on - is driving me crazy. Okay, and everyone else too something like these -> http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=5028&prmenbr=76&path=76%202305%202311%202557 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 It looks to me like the collector and flange would be inside the firewall/interior. The head is only 3 or 4 inches from the firewall in the JTR setup, and this header looks to have the collector too far back to fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMS Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 Pete sagely says... >It looks to me like the collector and >flange would be inside the firewall/interior To which I boldly reply... So what's wrong with that? Just plumb the exhaust to run through your tubular roll cage! There would be many benefits to this technique: 1) You'd take out a good five feet of heavy steel piping by combining systems. 2) With your mufflers INSIDE the car, you can easily remove your street mufflers at the track without getting dirty grubbing around underneath the car. Great in the rain, too! 3) You could throw away your potentially leaky, old fashioned heater core. Water belongs OUTSIDE the car, not inside. Not even to visit! Reduced chance of floor rust and stuck heater core valves. 4) Best of all, NO MORE CLEARANCE PROBLEMS! You can once again go over speedbumps without dragging ass! Why hasn't someone thought of this sooner?!? Tongue firmly in cheek, Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 Yeah, I agree with Pete. The collector would need to turn down sooner to keep from striking the firewall. Even if it did clear it, you'd never get a sharp enough radius exhaust pipe to clear the firewall and miss everything else on the way down. Remember the Ford motor (fox headers) is considerably narrower than the Chevy (like some 4 inches) so it would have a better chance of missing things. Consider also that the header pictured is still of a un-equal primary length short design and would'nt (IMHO) offer any large gains over the blockhugger's which we know to work. I suppose they could be cut off and re-worked, but if I were going that far, I'd just buy a flange kit and bends and build custom headers (and that can be done, but its ALOT of fabrication and time.) Of course you may be able to turn them around right to left and have them exit forward and then U bends to turn the exhaust back 180 and go from there.. Just some thoughts, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Juday Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 Wait a minute! Let's revisit RPMS idea. In fact, I'll go one better. Use boat headers! Go through the hood, run the pipes over the top and down the hatch to make an external roll cage, ala Land Rover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMS Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 Dan, you are indeed gifted, and a true resource to this board. In the HybridZ spirit, you have taken the seed of an idea and run with it to great effect. By routing the tubing outside the car, you not only provide a means of protecting your expensive paint and bodywork, but if you make the framework semi-spherical, you could end up with a car that is virtually unstoppable. If you slide off the road, the car will eventually roll until the wheels are once again pointed downwards, then you proceed on and win the race! Great idea - keep that thinking cap on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 Indeed, the outside over the car exhaust sounds pretty novel. For a simple solution, truck puller headers with Chemical Car inserts. Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 How about going through the firewall and up towards the ceiling, towards the back, thru the floor in the rear and out the back. A heated rollcage! Owen ------------------ http://www.homestead.com/s30z/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted March 31, 2001 Author Share Posted March 31, 2001 Yeah yeah - okay. Some of the truck headers are swept back but the collector isn't as far back as that picture - however no place I look have I found good pics and the few pics I've seen in Jeg's don't identify which header they're showing and I've got NO idea what the OTHER side looks like. So... How about these? http://www.flowtech.com/hugger.html I'm looking at the 31030 and maybe their TOOBES too. Naturally it's not listed in Jeg's but I can always call and beg. Too big? I've have to run a reducer on the collector to get it to 2.5inches. There's a Hooker header that runs a bigger primary that also looks good, I'm trying to stay away from 1.5inch primaries. It's at -> http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=25632&prmenbr=76&path=76%202305%202311%202557 and is a 1 5/8ths primary. Good enough? Dynomax has some nice ones too but Jegs doesn't list their sizing, looked on the Dynomax site, not much there on measurements ->http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=4701&prmenbr=76&path=76%202305%202311%202557 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest needwaymorespeed Posted March 31, 2001 Share Posted March 31, 2001 blk the 31030 is for a bigbolck chev. have you looked at rewardheaders?? they have some 1 and 3/4 tubes with 3/8 flange and 14 guage tubes-tig welded and coated for 310.00 they look purrrty! ther site address is rewardheaders.com I just dont know if theyll clear the steering shaft on the drivers side. my cars a bare shell right now so Im not sure how much room we have there. Curtis ps- I had those hookers-very nice sold them though wanting to go with 1 3/4 tubes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted March 31, 2001 Share Posted March 31, 2001 I have the flowtechs, and I like them a lot, but I'd be willing to sell them if you want to stay in the 1 5/8 size range... Mine are ceramic.. Mike ------------------ http://hometown.aol.com/dat74z/myhomepage/auto.html "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted March 31, 2001 Author Share Posted March 31, 2001 Oh duh, yes those are for big blocks - I'm stupid! The Reward headers look VERY nice, a touch pricey but they've got all the right sizes including a 1.75 primary to a 2.5 collector I think that 1.75 migh tbe a otuch too big and I do wonder about steering shaft clearance. Guess I;ll have to wander out to the garage and do a little measuring. I've not checked their site too much for dimensions but will in a bit. Turns out I'd already bookmarked their site previously but have been browsing Jegs mostly the last few days. http://www.rewarderheaders.com/search_result.asp?CATEGORY=Block+Huggers&MANUFACTURER=ALL&DESCRIPTION=&PRODUCT_ID= Mike, shoot me a price on those headers, I'll consider them. Have you test fitted them? Are you going bigger then? Those of you with Desktop Dyno - how much difference does moving the primary tube size make with a 2.5inch collector? Does it simply move the peaks aorund or would a 450hp motor be choking with say 1 5/8ths primary? I'm sticking to shorties though no matter what... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted April 1, 2001 Share Posted April 1, 2001 Jim, I just ran a 383 that I had put together based on Ron Jone's input on DD2000. It had a HP peak at 6000 of 467 with large tube headers and mufflers. With small tube headers with mufflers it made 458. Note that the manual for DD2000 says that: "Headers with tubes that measure 95% to 105% of the exhaust-valve diameter are considered “small†for any par-ticular engine; tubes that measure 120% to 140% of the exhaust-valve diameter are “large†tube headers. Header tubes: 1-5/8" = 1.625" (assuming they mean the "stated tube size) 1-3/4" = 1.75" (assuming they mean the "stated tube size) Exhaust valves: 1.50" exhaust valve * 105% = 1.575" 1.50" exhaust valve * 120% = 1.8" 1.60" exhaust valve * 105% = 1.68" 1.60" exhaust vavle * 120% = 1.92" So, running 1-5/8" headers on a 1.6" exhaust valve (a small tube header for that valve) is not a big deal as far as I can tell, for a 450 hp motor. Especially if it's a street car that will only once and a while be spun to it's HP peak. JMHO, ------------------ Pete Paraska - 73 540Z - Marathon Z Project pparaska@home.com Pete's V8 Datsun 240Z Pages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted April 1, 2001 Share Posted April 1, 2001 Jim, those are the headers I ran on my car all year, last season... I had them posted here on the forsale site, and I think I was asking $125 for them... I think I paid $190 for them... I'm not sure what I'm gonna go with, I'm thinking about long tubes, but I'm also looking at Sanderson's headers... I'd like to get a 1 3/4, but Pete's info is also exactly what I have been told from others.. going 1 5/8 to 1 3/4 really doesn't net you much in HP, and Might make torque drop a few points... Now I'm confused... Maybe I should keep what I have and not screw with my exhaust... I don't know.. The Flow Techs are nice though, and I can tell you from having them on my car, you have a good fit all around, and Robert @ Roberts Custom Exhaust did mine and took a bunch of pics for the next time he has to do one up for someone...BTW< don't buy your own mufflers, as Robert likes to provide everything, that way he knows exactly what he has to work with and there is no guessing...I thought it was odd to, but the guy does GREAT work and tucked my exhaust way up under the car... Mike Mike ------------------ http://hometown.aol.com/dat74z/myhomepage/auto.html "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted April 1, 2001 Author Share Posted April 1, 2001 Killing a litle torque is fine by me but for th elittle HP gain I'm not sure the spark plug hassles are worth it Mike, are your heads andgle plug or straight? I went with straight in order to skip header hassles - I believe thei rsite mentions straight plugs working best. Let me know if they're absolutely for sale as I need to get that finalized. Right nwo I'm not sure who will do my exhaust. I know Robert does awesome work but he's not exactly next door to me. There's a shop in Fairfax circle that did work for my Mustang that was flawless that I might speak to when the time comes, there's also a guy in Manasas that I'm told is good but I've never used. Since I've still not decided on mufflers I'm not sure what I'll do. On the one hand I think the punk ricer mufflers would be fun but I don't know how loud they are. On the other I know I can get the car pretty quiet using something lke a Dynomax Ultra muffler. I'm going to wait to cross that bridge - I've got a little ways to go yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest needwaymorespeed Posted April 23, 2001 Share Posted April 23, 2001 blkmgk what did you decide you going to try the bigger headers 1 3/4 mike kelly how bout you,I want the big ones but would like to know how they fit first hate to buy them and see they dont fit especially if someone else has already been down this road. thanks curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 I know those of us that instal the SBC in a Z cant run the headers we prefer; but, for posterity's sake-here's a couple formula's for determining tube diameter/lengths. Primary Tube Diameter= SQRT(Displacement x 1900/Primary Tube Length x Maximum RPM's) Primary Tube Length= Displacement x 1900/Diameter^2 x RPM Hope that helps someone. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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