Crank trigger question

[dizzle]

I am doing a rb20 build in my 73 Z, and was talked into the megasquirt.

I am trying to avoid using the EDIS 6 set up just to keep the engine looking clean. I was told that there is a way to make the Cam Angle sensor act as a trigger for the MS??? I opened the sensor up and it is a window style optical sensor, like what is found in some of the other z's distributors. But, the windows are all different lengths!! I read that people have acomplished this with some other mitsu sensors (from a 1g eclipse) but it looked their windows were all the same opening length. Was even thinking about trying to find a sensor from a mitsu truck (v6) or a 3000gt to see if it would bolt up and have standard openings???

I am new to MS and have been researching a ton but cant find anything...

 

Or do you guys think I should just bite the bullet and get the EDIS???

 

Thanks,

[1 fast z]

EDIS is about 100.00 for everythng you would need. It is also availible in any town you might be passing throuh for extra parts. Your RB sensor on the other hand is not.

[Clifton]

As 1 fast Z said. Edis is easy and works great. You can't do flat shift or launch control but i think that is the only down side and that is only if you drag race. Unless someone else has done MS with an Rb CAS and can walk you through it, it might be a pita to get it going. This place has a bunch of edis wheels if you go that route. http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/trigger-wheels-c-48.html

[dizzle]

Well that sucks...

can i retain the stock COP??? or am i still going to need the ford coil pack?? I am just trying to make this look as clean as possible.

When I figure out how to post some pics, you will have to let me know what you think...

[Clifton]

I have seen threads were people say you can run cop with the waste spark ignitor, if they don't have built in ignitors. I don't know how well it charges the coils. I have also seen threads were people run dual edis. I would try firing the cop coils with the edis but check the MS forum. I haven't been on their boards in a while.

[z-ya]

I would look into a Wolf 3D unit. They have units that plug into the factory harness and use all of the stock sensors. Yea it is more expensive than the MS, but you will save a lot of time, and it has a warranty.

 

I'll be doing the FI on a HybridZ member's RB26DETT swap soon. We are using a Wolf V500. Ron Tyler can hook you up.

[1 fast z]

At 4+ times the cost might I add!

[Matt Cramer]

I've seen a few MS-friendly discs that fit into the RB CAS, but they were all aftermarket bits. We've been looking into building a CAS mod package of our own but it's had a couple production tie-ups so it will be a while before they're out.

[z-ya]

At 4+ times the cost might I add!

 

I think if you add up everything you have spent on MS, including sensors, and then time debugging new sensors, trigger wheels etc., it is more like a 2x cost difference. And you have a lifetime warranty.

 

I think people new to aftermarket EFI need to realize that a lot of what we are doing with MS is experimental. I'm not bashing MS, but after supporting people that have gotten way over their head with MS, I wish I had suggested a commercially available unit instead. Things like simple mistakes in making the harness can cause problems that are very difficult to debug. When you are talking about low level signals from hall or VR type sensors running through a harness that is also carrying switched signals to inductive loads like injectors, it is a perfect scenario for these kinds of problems.

 

The question is how much time do you want to spend debugging problems vs tuning and or driving.

[1 fast z]

I have personlly megasquirtd 10 vehicles now. The sensors are 8 dollars for the IAT sensor at ANY auto parts stores, and the CLT sensor is 7.00 at any auto pars store. I am not sure what debugging you are talking about with the sensors, but I have never had to debug any sensors. MS cost 240.00, 300.00 with harness. So no more than 400.00 with EVERYTHING. IT takes me about 3 hours to wire and mount everything. As far as a warrante, Once MS is installed, CORRECTLY, you wont ever have a problem.

[dizzle]

I have personlly megasquirtd 10 vehicles now. The sensors are 8 dollars for the IAT sensor at ANY auto parts stores, and the CLT sensor is 7.00 at any auto pars store. I am not sure what debugging you are talking about with the sensors, but I have never had to debug any sensors. MS cost 240.00, 300.00 with harness. So no more than 400.00 with EVERYTHING. IT takes me about 3 hours to wire and mount everything. As far as a warrante, Once MS is installed, CORRECTLY, you wont ever have a problem.

 

 

Well that is very re assuring! I have really taken a lot of time in planning this build and just want everything to be done RIGHT. And For the price I don't think i made a bad choice with the megasquirt (at least not yet anyway).

On a positive note I picked up an entire EDIS 6 setup from the junk yard for $25!! I have now started the wiring process and am getting a little frustrated. Mainly since my fabricator has not yet finished my upper intake plenum yet.

 

Hey "1 fast Z", you ever installed MS on the RB? If so, any pointers?

Thanks

[Clifton]

 

The question is how much time do you want to spend debugging problems vs tuning and or driving.

 

I second that. Once MS is running it's fine. It's just having to learn every single thing about it (pages of info), loading it, and setting it up. I spent less time installing and tunning my SDS than just setting up MS. Tunning MS is easy though, it's just getting it to that point. If you don't have a lot of time to spend, I would not do MS.

[1 fast z]

Clifton, you also have SDS on a RACE car, I bet it is NOT quite tuned as well as your street car is. You have had ALOT of problems with Flyback circut related. Its real easy I think.

[Clifton]

Clifton, you also have SDS on a RACE car, I bet it is NOT quite tuned as well as your street car is. You have had ALOT of problems with Flyback circut related. Its real easy I think.

 

Ya, some flyback problems with MS, another drawback of MS. They shouldn't even offer it. It's another one of there experiments.

 

It took me 10 minutes in my garage to get the SDS accel close to perfect, 1/2 hr on a dyno for load. It has taken a year to get the MS accel setting close to ok without it bucking. I know sds doesn't compare to MS as far as tuneablity but there are much better systems out there now if someone wants to spend a little more and doesn't want to have to learn every single aspect of MS. I have no idea how SDS works but if I spent the time working instead of learning about MS which is pretty much required, I could have bought Motec:mrgreen:. It is cheap but it's cheap for a reason, 12x12 window, one configurable output. Maybe more if the led outputs can handle the load, but to find out it takes a day of research. I'm happy with it as it was cheap (I'm a cheap guy) and better than the Toyota system but if I was busy and wanted easy to hook up I wouldn't have done it.

[SidWell]

Well that sucks...

I am just trying to make this look as clean as possible.

...

 

Clean? Ignore the other wires. I am still working on the configuration but using the Ford EDIS and a Mopar coil pack, I think this looks pretty clean.

[z-ya]

From my experience, the MS gives you complete control over all parameters. It is presented more like an engineer would present it. Some of the aftermarket systems abstract more of that detail than others away from the end user. This is good and bad. It is great if the way they have abstracted the detail fits your application. Bad if it doesn't.

 

An example is the cold start settings. With MS you have complete control over all parameters. On some of the Wolf systems I have tuned there is one control, 0-100, and that is it. The cold start works flawless on Wolf systems. It is much easier to get the MS out of whack because there are so many controls. Too many controls can be a bad thing to someone new to tuning modern EFI.

 

Anyway, I love MS, and have been installing them since they first released the 2.2 board. Once you get the kinks out, they are very reliable. But I have had them fail, so they are not excluded from electronic failures.

 

My $0.02

[datman]

As 1 fast Z said. Edis is easy and works great. You can't do flat shift or launch control but i think that is the only down side and that is only if you drag race.

 

Couldn't you interrupt the power feed to the coilpack for flat shifts, thats pretty much what a quick shifter does on bike engines.

[kiwi303]

So... back to the original posters question, can the Cam angle sensor on an RB20 head be used as the trigger for the spark, and can the Nissan RB20DE coils packs be used? some here seem to say no some seem to say yes...

[letitsnow]

I believe it's being worked on, there may be a beta posted somewhere in this thread.

 

http://www.msextra.com/viewtopic.php?f=91&t=30254

[kiwi303]

Thanks, most of it is over my head, but what I can understand is looking good so far (pg 3, still reading) for using the RB/SR cam sensor as a trigger wheel.