johns car conversion vs JTR conversion

[Guest triple_threat311]

I just bought a 74 260z and I am planning on whooping up on all the pesky little civics and integras in town with a v8 swap. I have found two different companies with a v8 swap kit and instructions. Johns Cars Inc and JTR. Which is better. Johns Cars is more expensive, but I heard that JTR is goves you only general directions. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

Johns Cars Homepage

 

Thanks

anthony

[DavyZ]

Anthony, first off I would like to welcome you to the best forum on the web! If you have done a bit of reading using the "search" function, you've found that there are varying opinions on conversions. It sounds like you stumbled Lonehdrider's thread where Kevin, Owen, Richard, Len, Pete, and myself were "discussing" the JTR manual. The summation of that thread is that Mike Knell's manual does need an update (he knows it because I spoke with him last week) but it is still the best manual out there, and NONE of us were arguing over whether his conversion was the way to go or not. IT IS.

 

Anthony, you ask "which is better?" Do you want the best handling? If you do, go JTR. Many of the guys, if not most of the guys in this forum have the JTR setup. Some of them have had both like Long (Dankinzle) prefer the JTR set up overall. Find his post, log on to his site and readup on why he likes the JTR version best. After researching independent of this site, I found the JTR set up to be the best so I went with it. The engine is set back closer to the firewall and is better for weight distribution and handling.

 

As far as having only "general" information in the JTR manual, borrow one or take the chance and buy one before you make the $3000+ decision. Mike Knell wrote the manual and stated that you should have a Chevrolet service manual and a Datsun manual--logic dictates that for any conversion (including John's Cars for that matter) you should have all of the information you could need or would need to make it go smoothly.

 

The JTR manual gives much information including other things like brake upgrades, etc. Does John's Cars do this? I don't think they do. The choice is yours and it's a good thing you posted--so you can get everyone's opinions on why they did what they did. You have my biased $.02 anyway!

 

Good luck!

 

David

 

[ May 13, 2001: Message edited by: DavyZ ]

[Guest dankinzle]

John's cars conversion is more expensive than JTR? That makes JTR look all that much better.

Pop into my site at http://www.geocities.com/mandryd/v8z/ . I've got some info in there.

Just don't rush into anything!

[Greg SmileZ]

Anthony,

 

I live in the Dallas area and went to visit John's cars a couple of years ago. I spoke with John. My general impression was that Z conversions are not his primary business. He specializes in Jag Vs conversions. When I asked to see a Z that her had converted he walked me out to a Z that was not running not much of a sales tool.

 

I say that JTR is the only way to go even though I still don't have mine running. Mike at JTR has been helpfull when I have had questions, and this forum is great.

 

BTW - I did buy John's "mini-manual" to see what his product/instruction manual was like....about $25 if I remember....again, JTR is the only way to go. John tried to convince me that then engine setback that JTR offers was not significant (John's is in the forward position), I think it will make lots of difference.

 

Just my thoughts...

 

Greg SmileZ

[Guest Anonymous]

I was in Email correspondence with John's Cars about his kit. When I asked if his kit was in the Scarab position or more in the JTR setback position he replied with 'Whats a scarab?'. Obviously its not crime to not know, but if his kit is as complete as he says and he's done his homework on it, he'd know the Scarab was the predecessor to all of the V8 Z's and positioned the motor in the same spot as his swap.

A few things I didn't like while investigating his kit was, 1) his weird policies on filling out this fact sheet, and then only paying by check and waiting. 2) having to fill out a agreement to not disclose the design of his mounts or duplicate them in any manner. 3) Just his attitude, his reasoning is his is the best and everything else is crap. 4) Price. His kit is super expensive to place a motor in the Datsun in the position he's using requires a few spacers and redrilling the crossmember. Thats it. The rest of it is him selling you marked up brackets and hoses.

Obviously the choice is yours, but IMHO JTR is far superior in the bang for the buck. If you have basic mechanical skills and have pulled motors, or put them in before and are not affraid to wire a few small bits, then jump in, you will NOT regret the car when its done, they're phenominal.

As far as swaps go I'd rate the JTR swap 6 wrenches on a 10 wrench scale of hardness!

 

 

Respectfully,

 

Lone

[pparaska]

Lone, I agree, if the guy sells a V8 Z conversion kit and doesn't know what a Scarab is, I'd walk on that alone.

 

His attitude of him being the best and no one else knew anything also irritated me.

 

Then he goes on to say that the difference is nil between the Scarab position and the JTR setback. Well, I can say that I've heard the opposite from enough people who DON'T sell kits to take very little stock in his word.

 

I just wish he'd quit selling his kit or change it over to set back so that people who find his site and don't do any other research wouldn't get stuck with his (inferior, pricey, and arrogant) solution.

[DavyZ]

Anthony (Triple threat311),

Are you getting the idea of which swap that we think is the best (overall)?

 

I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anthing like that, but those who picked the JTR kit (whether they fabbed it themselves or not) are very opinionated that it's the way to go...

 

Just food for thought. Maybe some of the Scarab guys can kick in a few comments. I know there are at least a couple of guys who enjoy those kits as well.

 

Hope this helps you, Anthony.

 

David

[Owen]

I agree that the JTR book gives only very basic info, but it still was enough for me to decide what I wanted to do.

 

For example, the JTR book mentions the T56 tranny only briefly, but it does talk about the other trannies, their bellhousing patterns, flywheels, starters, and dimensions. This sets the stage of what things you need to study on your own to see if a T56 will fit. Same with coilovers, bumpsteer, etc. I think the book is great because it makes you ask questions, then you do a websearch, and you end up here!

 

I have only seen the John's Cars website but I did not like the Scarab positioning of the engine.

 

Get the book,plan it out first, then buy the kit or just the pieces you need.

 

Owen

[Z-Dreamer]

What about the kit that MSA offers? In their latest catalog they claim that theirs mounts the engine closest to the firewall, there is an overhead picture showing engine placement. I see that they also sell full length 1 3/4 headers. Any idea if these headers can be used with JTR engine mounts or MSA only?

[DavyZ]

The headers will apparently work with the JTR set up. Look for a very long thread about headers--they are sourced from another company and you can buy the full length ones directly for about $175 if I remember correctly. As far as the MSA kit setting the engine "closest" to the firewall--perhaps they have finally changed the mounts, which used to be Hooker/Scarab mounts to my knowledge. The JTR kit I think looks much cheaper overall. I guess it depends on what you want. For example, I would never use a Turbo 350 tranny in my car, which is the tranny mount that MSA offers. Plus, JTR has plans and diagrams so you can cheaply make your own mounts, etc. I like that!

 

David

[fl327]

go jtr all the way, and im not just saying that because JTR IS FROM THE BAY AREA or anything like that, its just the best as far as engine placement goes, he has this line that reads: it only makes sense that this motor be put in the best position since you are putting the motor in for performance, put it in so you get the most performance out of it. the owner of my car before me did the hooker conversion, and very caveman like might i add, im still working out the bugs in his conversion to this day! everyone here with a setback motor did it jtr method-its a really good method imho. yes, i know right now im running the scarab-which is not bad for driving around and stuff, but i know that i will handle differently at the limit and weight transfer for drag racing is off, i do plan on doing a jtr conversion when i get enough money and time to get a lt-1 or other type of efi 350 and a t-5/6, its only right. if you have the choice now like it seems you do, go JTR!!!!!!!!

[Two40MuscleZ]

Anthony, aka Triple_Threat311:

This is my first post. I would like to share a few thoughts with you. There are several members of HybridZ which I have had the pleasure of meeting and speaking with. Without going into detail, many of the questions and challenges you face have been experienced by each member here. I have researched the various companies, their product claims, and what they claim to do for you. JTR being the primary source for conversion products and information, followed by John's Cars. Price is always of primary concern. However, DO NOT be mislead by false claims, i.e. John's testimonial page. How many Z conversions do you see...maybe one! Are the kits he offers cost effective as compaired to JTR's? Listen to what other HZ members think of his sales and service? Finally, you are located in CA. Do you really want to deal with someone who is located in Texas?

 

JTR does offer a more affordable kit. It is backed by the company, which for a nominal fee of $35 plus some change for shipping, gives you the basic information the layman needs to get a good grasp on the conversion. There are three (3) big pluses here. 1) Prices are reasonable. 2) Your dealing with an company that has already established itself with your peers. 3) JTR is located in CA. and is much easier to deal with!

 

My conversion has been started with the JTR manual, and followed (with confidence) by their conversion hardware. Furthermore, if you have machinest capabilities, you can fabricate the engine mounting parts yourself...the JTR people supply you with the measured drawings! That indicates that they are not out for the hard sale, but the respect and desire for repeat business from satisfied customers.

 

Do yourself a favor, stick with JTR, both you and your pocket book will be glad. One final note...if you run into problems or have questions, I am confident that you have a whole membership out there who would offer their support, suggestions, and whatever else you need to rectify the problem. Welcome aboard, and best of luck in your new endeavor.

 

With Compliments

Gld7PtStar

[randy 77zt]

i have not read the jrt z swap book but i do have the efi chevy swap manual and have ordered small parts from jtr.no problems with service-always fast response.i used the book to install a 87 305 tpi into 84 el camino.the book was well worth the money in problem solving hints and gm part numbers.if you have eveer been to a gm or ford parts counter and you need a part but dont know what car it was on you will be greeted by a blank stare-having a part # is much better.