SleeperZ Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 Does this adapter, or the weld-on type require any CV shaft shortening? Is there an issue with either of these adapters binding up the CV shafts, which I hear are long compared to the stock shafts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted July 24, 2001 Author Share Posted July 24, 2001 quote: Originally posted by SleeperZ: Does this adapter, or the weld-on type require any CV shaft shortening? Is there an issue with either of these adapters binding up the CV shafts, which I hear are long compared to the stock shafts? I've emailed Pete just to verify that issue already (we've verified lots/but I hadn't asked that yet) as it if they were then squeezing a 1.25" sandwhich on either end won't help.. The CV shafts are longer UNCOMPRESSED than UJ shafts but do compress enough to fit Z's normally and properly. Actually Terry or Pete document somewhere that one should expect less wear from these CV shafts in a Z as the compression places the 'tulip' in a new position less prone to wear. Pete does a fine job of documenting these things. http://members.home.net/pparaska/280ZCVHalfshaftConversion.htm Perhaps Pete and Scottie, who are right up on lengths fitments with these CV's can answer this. I couldn't find a pic of Scotties setup to see if his was welded onto that stub flange of if that flange is parted and his adaptor welded to the splined shaft (ie. if his added length then it obviously works). One potential issue can be 'small' disk brakes. The CNC adaptor Mike Gibson and I are bringing about will clear CV's as it uses 11-3/8's rotors (whereas older ZX is ~10" rotors, which bring caliper/and ebrake very close to halfshafts). Any other potential 'clearance' issues? I recall a swaybar one or similar?? Better to have it all ironed out now rather than later....I have 4 committed including Mike. Feel free to post links to this on zcar.com and zdriver etc as this is the only forum I jump into when I get the odd minute etc. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 Ross, I'm very interested and want to know what the time frame is: when you want the moolah and when you think these babies will be finished. Shipping is maybe what, $25? Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 To answer SleeperZ's question, I designed my adaptor specifically to address the binding issue and because I personally preferred an adaptor that was precisely welded than using all those bolts. There seems to be a misunderstanding that my adaptor requires precision welding and that is not so. The current design has a pocket machined in it to fit the companion flange and provide trueness. The welding required is just to hold the companion flange in place. Unfortunately I did not take any pics of the new design. I do not believe there is enough demand to warrant 2 competing designs. Like anything else I have offered to others, this is something I designed for my own use and others saw a need for it. I am not in the parts business and doing this GP is really a royal pain but one I do if others will benefit. I am willing to withdraw my offer to make these adaptors so the forum can focus on one solution from someone who is more geared to supporting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted July 24, 2001 Author Share Posted July 24, 2001 Scottie, sorry if mis-stated a point. I've emailed you personally a few times just recently now as you know, so felt you had ample time to reply on both the preferred solution/welding etc. I couldn't find the pics (old links were dead) to see exactly how yours worked and only recalled several discussions of runout etc so assumed some precision was required. Offlist committments I have are from shadetree mechanics without welders or a desire to remove their flanges, so their preference still stands. Still outstanding is the issue of CV shaft length as installed. Sounds like yours is similar to Jim's? ie. close to 1.25" in thickness and it's all 'additive' lengths correct? ie. your 'adaptor' fits in between unlatered OEM stub and OEM CV shaft and you use one OEM pair (ie. one shorter/one longer)? Thanks. PS Should I take that as a thanks if I can relieve that RPITA for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted July 25, 2001 Author Share Posted July 25, 2001 As requested by a few members & non-members, I checked out pricing to produce Jim Biondi's proven/bolt on CV adaptors and it's completely feasible at a reasonable price same design Pete has detailed on his web and here http://www.hybridz.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=000136 (I'm not good at pasting pics with my ancient MS IE browser here at work) It's been a proven piece on Jim's car, taking 550hp to the pavement. He's given permission for it's reproduction exclusive of him (ie. he wants no liability associated with him). Being bolt on it can be easily installed and if your ride is down for a bit and you have another Z you can swap them over etc (I only keep spares for my own car so if I'm running CV's those are the spares I have...so nice to be able to only keep one type of spares). Complete price is $165US total, plus shipping. No welding needed at all. Just your bolts to bolt it up which you should have for your OEM flanges already and just be sure to get the OEM ones with your CV shafts when you buy them or buy new ones as per the PN"s on Pete's website. CNC shop based this pricing on 10 pairs. This includes using the 4150 Preheat treat Steel for the 'spool' that Jim specified and used after discussion with some experienced Ford SVT racing shops. This steel is a LOT stronger than mild steel and slower to machine but using this material allows the 'spool' to be built with the necessary reliefs for the OEM nuts/washers which enable it to be bolt on. Any q's feel free. Once 10 committments are made it'll go ahead. As stated in the other threads, this is NOT an effort to detract from Scottie's weld on adaptors. I've had a few ask me for a bolt on solution as they don't have access to what they feel are very reliable/or reasonable priced shops to do the precision welding required on his piece (and some simply wanted it to bolt-on). So given Jim's proven design it seemed natural to see if it could be produced cheap enough to benefit the rest of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted July 25, 2001 Share Posted July 25, 2001 OK, OK Sign me up.... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted July 25, 2001 Share Posted July 25, 2001 should have posted this here too..... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- what about a "exchange " axle flange, have a adapter made thats the pattern only for the 6 bolts and have it tigged on ...... this will bolt on to the car still - leave far more room for re/re the shaft and the cost will likely not be that bad.. all you need it 10 pairs of axle flange as cores to start...... -------------------- i like scotties idea more than a 2 piecer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted July 25, 2001 Share Posted July 25, 2001 The number of bolts to keep checking IS an issue. Jim found a few loose now and then, even with Lock-tite. Also, some have had trouble with the the other conversion, using the 240 stub axles and the 280ZX Turbo companion flanges that make this a bolt in swap (besides the dust and oil seal mods). On some cars, the CV shaftss bind because they are compressed too far. Each car seems to be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted July 25, 2001 Author Share Posted July 25, 2001 ----------------------------------- what about a "exchange " axle flange, have a adapter made thats the pattern only for the 6 bolts and have it tigged on ...... this will bolt on to the car still - leave far more room for re/re the shaft and the cost will likely not be that bad.. all you need it 10 pairs of axle flange as cores to start...... -------------------- above is same as scotties right? If it's only straightfwd welding req'd then the only extra work is removing that inner flange nut right? I'm not overly concerned about bolts coming loose, I'm not near Jim's 550hp loads he put thru them and have not had troubles with any drivetrain bolts I used loctite blue on. Scotty, does your's use any axle flanges's? Too bad those nuts can be so tough to remove at parts yards or the cores would be easy enough to get. Mike, but are cores needed? or simply to be able to send a finished product/have them all welded by one source etc to make it 'bolt-on' for most? [ July 28, 2001: Message edited by: Ross C ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted July 25, 2001 Share Posted July 25, 2001 Mike, I hope I am not misunderstanding your idea, but it sounds exactly like my adaptor design. As I stated before, some folks prefer the bolt-on and some the welded design. Both machine shops require a minimum of 10 and there is not 10 of each, so the focus should be on one design so everyone can have an adaptor. I really do not care which adaptor folks choose but I do not want there to be any misperceptions about mine. I have no burning desire to make and sell adaptors but if folks express an interest, I try to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted July 25, 2001 Share Posted July 25, 2001 yes Scotties adapter already welded onto the stub flange ready to "bolt on" Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KraZ4spd Posted July 25, 2001 Share Posted July 25, 2001 Could there be a conflict with Mikelly's adjustable rear control arms? When you lower the car and make the adjustment 'IN' on the arm wouldn't that create a higher risk of binding? Wouldn't the camber plates be less of a risk, because you make the adjustment 'OUT'? Just curious because I am interested in Mikelly's Arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted July 25, 2001 Author Share Posted July 25, 2001 What's the thickness on Scottie's piece? Perhaps it could be made thinner somewhat within reason to gain some travel? Although it sounds like this might not gain enough to suit most setups. If not, it's not beyond feasibility to gather up a dozen pairs of stub axles and have them parted or milled down an adequate portion if all else allows.......I could see a 'donut' shaped adaptor being quite thin with the weld being done on the inside of the donut and the 6 CV OEM holes drilled in the outer part of the donut so it actually slips over that stub flange....but then the CV endcap/snout might need clearancing on the stub flanges... If anyones going to do it we may as well solve as many issues as is feasible... Now if Scotties already accomodates most susp. travel in the average setup I'm just making this complicated and I apologize. [ July 25, 2001: Message edited by: Ross C ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KraZ4spd Posted July 25, 2001 Share Posted July 25, 2001 I'm with you scca. Already welded and ready to bolt on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clint78z Posted July 26, 2001 Share Posted July 26, 2001 I like the welded design much simpler, and less stuff to worry about. I am concerned about suspension travel, my car will someday be street driven. Our roads are like an amusement park rides, so the suspension gets a good workout. Wish I had more free time to help out on this one !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted July 26, 2001 Share Posted July 26, 2001 Ross, I think that nipple on the end of the CV shaft may be the reason for the length of Jim's adapter, maybe Scottie's too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAMIE T Posted July 26, 2001 Share Posted July 26, 2001 Ok, I have two questions. Is there any good reason to switch to the 280Z stubs or are the 240Z ones strong enough(do they really break, shear, whatever?)? Is there a problem with compression of the CV shafts when the 240Z stub axles are used or only when the 280Z ones are used. For people with 280's, then they need these adapters, but I think I'm going to use my stock 240Z stubs and go with the easy aproach. Jamie Deathstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KraZ4spd Posted July 26, 2001 Share Posted July 26, 2001 I WILL buy the welded ones. Let me know when they are done. Will there be a core charge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted July 26, 2001 Share Posted July 26, 2001 Let me see if I can help address some of the questions. With the adaptor in place, I jacked up the control arm to the point where I felt the CV had the farthest travel in towards the diff and at that point I pried the CV and there was still a little compression left in them. I wonder if anyone is going to put their Z-car under more extreme squatting conditions that I have put mine? I would say that is "proven" . Do not know anything about Mike's adjustable rear control arm, but if you can make such extreme inwards adjustment it would be an issue for any axle and I would also be concerned about the alignment. My adaptor has the appropriate sized hole in the middle of it accomodate working with the big stub axle nut AND to fit the niple at the end of the CV in. Therefore the nipple on the CV had no influence on the thickness of my adaptor. 240Z and 280Z companion flanges physically look the same but you can slip a 280Z companion flange over the splines of a 240Z stub axle without the touching. When stub axles break, they break at the base of the splines so you want to use the thicker one if possible. There is no core charge. Where does that leave the folks who prefer and want the bolt-on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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