shift00 Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Before i put the head on i found the true TC at the cylinder #1 with a dial indicator and temporarely installed the front cover and dampener to mark it for future reference in case it happened to move it through out the motor build. So i put the head on, assembled the timimg, put the valve cover on, also the frontcover and while i was trying to assemble the oil pump/ spindle I couldn't get the spindle to line up at the 11:25 angle that is disired...so i turned the crank a little and i realized the the crank made the spindle mover to the 11:25 position. So i was looking at the dampener and the marks on it from the factory are like 45* degrees off from where my marks are when i found TC. I realized the crank it on a key so theres only one way it could go on and theres only one way the crank can go on. SO where did i Go wrong? How did the factory marks on the dampener get so far off at TC on the #1 cyclinder? is that why my oil pump spindle is not finding the 11:25 position? Also i would like to add the bought a new timing assy and timed it to the#1 notch. The mark on the oblong groove is only a few degrees off the thrust plate notch when the dampener is at TC on the marks I made, not the factory notch. What do i do? i had to have gone wrong somewhere. I hope i made myself clear and you guys can underlstand what im saying. Thanks for your helps guys.let me know if i need to explain myself more clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezzzzzzz Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Did this engine run (for you) before you started the rebuild? When you first found TDC and installed the dampener was it lined up correctly with the timing pointer? Did you get the timing chain correctly installed once the head was in place? If so, I wouldn't be overly concerned with the oil pump/distributor drive spindle. Just be sure to rotate it a tooth either way to get it close to the factory position (I'm thinking you may not be taking rotation into account when putting the drive in). Set the engine back up to TDC. Install the spindle as close to factory as possible. Drop in the distributor and set it for about 10 static advance. If the timing components were installed correctly the engine will fire up and you can adjust timing. If I've missed something obivous I'm sure someone will chime in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowFever Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 How did the factory marks on the dampener get so far off at TC on the #1 cyclinder? It's possible that your damper has "separated". The stock ones are made up of a hub and a timing ring connected by rubber. If that rubber fails then the ring can move in relation to the hub. Once that happens your timing marks will be off. You might want to check if there is any play between your damper's timing ring and hub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Before you put the head on, did the timing tab align with a mark on the damper when #1 was at TDC? If so, turn the crank so the mark on the damper aligns with the timing tab as when you had the head off and #1 at TDC. Align the marks on the oil pump and oil pump shaft. Then turn the oil pump shaft just a couple of degrees counter clock wise (looking down the oil pump shaft towards the pump). Then insert the oil pump and shaft. The couple degrees is just to compensate for movement when the oil pump shaft gear aligns with the crank worm gear. It just needs to be close. The final timing adjustment is done with the distributor. If you are running aftermarket engine management with direct fire ignition, then it doesn't matter how you time the oil pump shaft because it is only turning the oil pump. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift00 Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Did this engine run (for you) before you started the rebuild? When you first found TDC and installed the dampener was it lined up correctly with the timing pointer? Did you get the timing chain correctly installed once the head was in place? If so, I wouldn't be overly concerned with the oil pump/distributor drive spindle. Just be sure to rotate it a tooth either way to get it close to the factory position (I'm thinking you may not be taking rotation into account when putting the drive in). Set the engine back up to TDC. Install the spindle as close to factory as possible. Drop in the distributor and set it for about 10 static advance. If the timing components were installed correctly the engine will fire up and you can adjust timing. If I've missed something obivous I'm sure someone will chime in. This engine did run for me...just the number 5 cylinder had no compression. No the the timing mark on the dampener never lined up with the front cover tab. In my book "how to rebuild you datsun motor", it said if the the timing marks on the dampener dont agree with TC you can make adjustments now or later.....So i made me own mark and kept going on this the rebuild hoping that it would tell me later on how to fix it but it never did. So this is where im at. also, yes i am taking the rotation in to account when putting the distributor drive shaft in.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift00 Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 It's possible that your damper has "separated". The stock ones are made up of a hub and a timing ring connected by rubber. If that rubber fails then the ring can move in relation to the hub. Once that happens your timing marks will be off. You might want to check if there is any play between your damper's timing ring and hub. ok ill check...how much play am i looking for, any? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift00 Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Before you put the head on, did the timing tab align with a mark on the damper when #1 was at TDC? If so, turn the crank so the mark on the damper aligns with the timing tab as when you had the head off and #1 at TDC. Align the marks on the oil pump and oil pump shaft. Then turn the oil pump shaft just a couple of degrees counter clock wise (looking down the oil pump shaft towards the pump). Then insert the oil pump and shaft. The couple degrees is just to compensate for movement when the oil pump shaft gear aligns with the crank worm gear. It just needs to be close. The final timing adjustment is done with the distributor. If you are running aftermarket engine management with direct fire ignition, then it doesn't matter how you time the oil pump shaft because it is only turning the oil pump. Pete The factory make on the damper has never alined on to the tab or TC even even before the motor was rebuilt. So needless to say before i put the head on and found the true TC and installed the front cover, the mark on the tab did not alined with the marks on the damper. there about 45 degrees off. also are you saying to alined the marks I made on the damper to the timing tab, because if i turn it to the stock on im not gonna' be on TC anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Sounds like it's time to buy a new damper. I plan to get mine rebuilt by some guy on the internet...he's been mentioned here a few times, but i can't remember his name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift00 Posted June 21, 2008 Author Share Posted June 21, 2008 generally when the damper moves that much they just brake apart dont they? also damper really shouldn't matter as far as assembly goes righT? as long as the timing it correct and the distibutor shaft it close, the motor should run and i can fix the timing with a timing light? I can't for see and problems if that it the case or am i all backwords? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEBEZEEed Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 You never mentioned what year motor, I've had 3 73's and the front cover tab is bolted to the driver side of the block, and the dampener is timed for that side!I did not realize that other years were on the passenger side, and I have run into a timing problem by swapping parts .Somewhere along the way I mismatched the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift00 Posted June 21, 2008 Author Share Posted June 21, 2008 thats a very good point i have a 77' 280z. the damper looks like it would match up pretty close if the timing tab was on the other side. maybe that is the case and someone just put the wrong one on there... However, can i still run that same damper without any problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEBEZEEed Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 I've had to remark mine so it's clear it is the wrong one (timing wise) but it has been that way for 3 years now with no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddle Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Some times, I wonder why I even bother replying to peoples threads, I had already answered most of the what was said in this thread, in his other thread about the same thing. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=135333 Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift00 Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 Yes nigel you did...that was the second question you asked me and you answered it, but originally i thought it was the stock damper on the motor, but i was proved to be wrong by you and these other guys... I don't know how i post two threads of the same question, but i did and people started to respond to this thread and i forgot there was another one with all the awnsers on it. thanks nigel, didn't mean to make you think your opinion ment nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh817 Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 If this is an indication to the inside of the dampener rotating within the outside, refer to my instructions which came from Kas Kastner. Even if its a new dampener, it should be done because new ones can still show invalid marks ones spun: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?p=902272#post902272 ^ read the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift00 Posted June 30, 2008 Author Share Posted June 30, 2008 thanks josh...im already on my way of buying a new one. That was a good little tip kas had about the 1/8 hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.