Stroking a 280ZX with FI?

[attworth]

I've read just about every FAQ, thread, etc on stroking an L28, but can't seem to find one relating to a 280ZX with FI. Is there a reason for this? Is it possible to stroke that motor?

[ben280zx]

I'm assuming your question is, Can you stroke your current motor(zx-f54/p90) with Fuel injected? Sure, I don't see why not. My friend have done it but he said for NA there not a big of a different as to the regular L28. Turbo stroker is another story.

[attworth]

Yeah, that was the question. I've been told by various builders that stroking a turbo L28 isn't the best idea, but haven't gotten into great detail from them. I think I want to keep it NA, because at this point I have no desire to make it a monster - that's another project for another day and another car.

[woldson]

Honestly I would spend money on ms or wolf ect. Than get an wb, agressive cam, headers and rest of exught done. She will certainly leap to life and you can save bunch of money and learn to tune! (If you don't know that yet)

 

 

If the compression is good no need to even crack the engine;) Just passing thought.

[Warren]

I've read just about every FAQ, thread, etc on stroking an L28, but can't seem to find one relating to a 280ZX with FI. Is there a reason for this? Is it possible to stroke that motor?

 

Sure it can be done.

 

I've been told by various builders that stroking a turbo L28 isn't the best idea, but haven't gotten into great detail from them.

 

I'd like to hear their detailed reasoning too.

 

I stoked my turbo (F54/P90) with NO ill effects...of course, I didn't go hog wild on it by going to 89mm... I only went to 87mm...same process without making the walls too thin.

[attworth]

Well, looks like I've got some deciding to do. I've always wanted a stroker, because frankly, it's a cool idea. I've never messed around with actually fine-tuning an engine, so ms would be a fine way to jump into it. Turbo, well that's another option too.

 

Thanks for the responses, folks.

[Challenger]

Its been said alot here, psi is cheaper the ci for L series.

 

Like Woldson said, forget about the stroker and get a standalone, it gives you alot more potential.

[Warren]

Its been said alot here, psi is cheaper the ci for L series.

 

HUH? What ? ? ?

 

Like Woldson said, forget about the stroker and get a standalone, it gives you alot more potential.

 

Potential what?

 

[Rant on]

 

I'm not being argumentive here, just trying to figure out why all these statements are being made and the reasoning behind them. It's awfully vague to make statements without justifying or qualifying them. That's how alot of crap gets put on the board.

 

It used to be (around here) that if you haven't done it, you have NO experience at it, therefore, you ask and learn from those who DO have experience. Here of late, alot is being theorized by the INexperienced without explaining how and/or why. (I'm not knocking or pointing at anybody in particular, just stating what seems to be happening). This is leading to TONS of superfluous posts that become more misleading than informative.

 

I mean, it's all fine and well to discuss something, especially when valuable information is exchanged, but to put out vague statements is just confusing the issue at hand more than it's explaining anything or helping the person asking the question.

 

Sorry for the rant here, but it's beginning to get downright ridiculous.

 

[Rant Off]

[Challenger]

Ok sorry, I meant its alot cheaper to up the boost than to increase the displacement on a L series.

 

As for standalone, I meant you have alot more potential power by going to a standalone than to increase the displacement .2-.3 L.

 

Are either of these incorrect...

[Warren]

Upping the boost being cheaper is debatable, and wasn't part of the original question asked. Too many factors contribute to actual costs of each, i.e. originally a turbo car with ECU, oil pan, etc..., how much work you plan on doing yourself, and parts availability (to note a few).

 

While it's true that standalones can provide more power by allowing more precise tuning, increasing displacement affects compression ratio, which in turn will allow you to increase boost (slightly) while decreasing the risk of detonation.

 

Neither option is in-expensive, and personal preference comes in to play as well as the condition of the motor to begin with, i.e. does it need to be bored, etc... (Not to mention the "while I'm at it" bug)...

 

To answer the original questions more accurately, there is little difference between the 280Z and 280ZX engines, in stock form as they came from the factory. Therefore, it's generally understood that stroking can be sucessfully done to either powertrain and that induction method is not really a concern when considering stoking, as either method of induction (N/A or FI) will work with a stroker engine. (I'm taking into account the original poster's post count, and the fact that this information may not have been known by him.)

[attworth]

I do appreciate the advice guys. I am fairly new to Hybridz. I've been hanging around zcar.com for the past 6 years or so, but there's not much info on building up, but rather posts like, "my headlights stopped working."

 

I literally JUST picked up my new 81, so at this point I'm just trying to decide what direction I'm going to go with it. I'm getting married in a little over a month, so this isn't something that's going to happen over night, or even the next few years. It's going to be a slow build-up involving lots and lots of time and "miscalculating the check-book."

 

My major questions were answered, and I do appreciate it. I guess I was thinking that perhaps the head I have has some sort of clearance issues, or other unknown variable not involved with a carb setup - not to mention the folks I talked to saying stroker+turbo=bad.

 

So again, thanks fellas (and possibly ladies.)

 

- Tony

[Six_Shooter]

As mentioned or eluded to by Wolson, there are other areas that should be addressed before building/buying a stroker motor.

 

You could have a long stroke engine, but if you can't get the fuel and air into and out of those engines, all you'll end up with is a poorly performing stroker, and leave a bad taste in your mouth about strokers.

 

The one thing to learn and learn and learn again, and then remond yourself of, is that the bottome doesn't make power, the tope end does. More specifically a better flowing top end will allow an engine to breath better getting more air and fuel through the engine, the bottome end is only built to handle this (potential) power.

 

I would much rather use a stock stroke, even unopened engine, that has improved breathing capabilities than to use possibly mismatched internal components. Being well thought out and using components that will match what is really going on now what we all want (Lots of power, with exceptional milage and for cheap).

 

To say "I have a stroker" is some what of a misnomer, and only for wowing those that are uniformed in most instances. For all intents and purposes the L28 is a "stroker motor" It's based on an older engine that was "stroked" (and bored) to increase displacement, many other engines have followed this through the years, SBC, GM 60* V6, Buick V6, SB Dodge, SBF, and just about any engine that has had revisions in displacement over the course of production.

 

Stroking is a fairly easy way to increase torque output, and is why many people choose to use longer stroke over a shorter stroke engine in many cases, but two engine, prepared the same one with longer stroke, than the other the engine with the longer stroke will usually have a lower red line. This is not neccisarily a bad thing. In some cases revving an engine to the moon may not be what is needed for the application. Case in point, take street driven vehicles, that see most of thier time at idle or low RPM cruise and accel, so why does the engine need to rev to 9500 RPM? To impress friends saying "Yep that there B26dettsuperfangledwhatzit has a 9500 RPM red line" while thier buddies standing at the local burger joint all say "ooooooooo" in unison. The owner will forget to mention that he has to rev it to 3000 RPM to get it to move the car from a standing start.

 

On the flip side longer stroke engines tend to have a higher piston speed, and because of this the forces on the componets such as the rods, crank thows, bearings, even the block itself, and can cause "earlier" failure of components because of this, stress anything too much and it will fail.

 

There are compromises in building an engine, be it turbo, N/A nitrous, supercharged or some combination, most important is match the final outcome to how the will will be used in reality. We would all like to have a 1000+ HP engine that gets a broad or flat and wide torque curve, that never shows signs of valve float, choking, and getting good milage, but in reality this doesn't happen.

[attworth]

Six Shooter,

 

You bring up some very valid points, and I commend you for doing so. All throughout my high school years I saw kids doing exactly what you're mentioning.

 

My intent with this car is to make a very streetable, but fairly poweful and reliable machine. Although money is, and will continue to be tight, when I start my build-up, I intend to spare no expense. That's not to say I'll waste money on parts I don't need, but I'm not going to cheap out on parts that aren't going to meet my standards.

 

I've yet to find a good machinist/shop/tuner, but it's on my high list. I've got a good bit of experience and knowledge when it comes to working on vehicles, but I've never actually BUILT a motor package other than on paper. I think it's vitally important that if you don't know what you're doing, have somebody who does over-see and/or do the project.

 

Anyway, that's all I have for now.

 

- Tony

[woldson]

B26dettsuperfangledwhatzit Bawwhaaahaa!

 

My only point was taking what is there, that runs, and haveing a little fun while learning and useing parts that can be used for a serious build later.

 

This will allow time for searching, learning and hopefully wisdom before plunging into a rather dedicated type of build. Cam might be reused for the stroker if bought correctly, sold if you go turbo.

 

Mean while you can really learn stuff by the seat of your pants with less chance of killing machanical parts.

 

Warren knows very well the making of SERIOUS builds and makes a great point. I try to give advice to those that seem to be start ups and have a learning curve in frount of them. (no offence Attworth).

 

Mostly I leave the big stuff to the big dogs! At this point in my life I will attmit that over 60% is from this board and its members considering the l28 engine. So I'm just passing along what I've gathered over time, just to be usefull. Peace.

[Six_Shooter]

B26dettsuperfangledwhatzit Bawwhaaahaa!

 

My only point was taking what is there, that runs, and haveing a little fun while learning and useing parts that can be used for a serious build later.

 

This will allow time for searching, learning and hopefully wisdom before plunging into a rather dedicated type of build. Cam might be reused for the stroker if bought correctly, sold if you go turbo.

 

Mean while you can really learn stuff by the seat of your pants with less chance of killing machanical parts.

 

Warren knows very well the making of SERIOUS builds and makes a great point. I try to give advice to those that seem to be start ups and have a learning curve in frount of them. (no offence Attworth).

 

Mostly I leave the big stuff to the big dogs! At this point in my life I will attmit that over 60% is from this board and its members considering the l28 engine. So I'm just passing along what I've gathered over time, just to be usefull. Peace.

 

Yeah, I didn't mean to dispute that, I was trying to build on that, I guess I should have been a little more clear.

 

I agree that adding a real time tunable EMS, or modifying an OEM EMS to allow for real time tuning allows for a whole new learning and sometimes enjoyable experiance.

 

It's nice to see just what you can do with a bone stock engine, to pull a few more ponies out of and/or a few more MPG, with a tune taylored more to the particular engine in your car and not the "safe tunes" used by the OEMs to reduce warrenty claims.

 

Using the stock engine you don't really need to worry about damaging it, since there won't be a whole lot of money invested in the engine itself to start with. See what you can do in stock trim, then make the engine breath a little better, better intake, higher flow exhaust, etc, then see what tuning changes will be needed at that time. It can be pretty interesting. Most of the engines I've tuned were after some major changes were made, high compression, large power builds, or turbo(s) added, with no stock tuning done previously, but I like to jump in with both feet.

 

Tuning the EMS side can be a lot of fun, I enjoy it.

[attworth]

woldson - none taken. I'm by no means a builder - yet. Six shooter - like you said, playing around with a stock motor is fun. I've gone pretty far with my previous cars, but have never done real hands on tuning by myself. I think that'll probably be a good start for me.

 

At the moment, I'm working to prepare the rest of the car for what I need. I.e., it needs an alignment and tires really bad, and the suspension is horrible. The interior is pretty sketchy and there's a little cancer here and there I need to cure or have cured.

 

I hope to pick up a bare block this weekend or next to start cleaning and envisioning a build-up.