l24 to l28 swap Q... wont start

[turbeau]

i just pulled out the l24 and bolted in the l28 but it wont start. i tried both starters and still same problem. i tried starting it with a jump and no go. i think the problem might be the distributor. i have the 240 one on there now, will this work?

 

i have a positive and negative wire coming out of a universal coil i used for the l24. on the 280 distributor there is a two prong outlet plug but i dont know which prong is positive and which is negative.

 

any other suggestions for what to check?

 

thanks for any help, and yes i have checked for other threads

[woldson]

Ummmm, if you can't turn it over how come you think it is the dis?

Rethink your question in order to give clearity.

[blue72]

So does the engine turn over but the vehicle won't start? Does the engine turn over at all? If it does turn over, do you have spark to the spark plugs? Are you using the SU carbs or fuel injection? Give us some more info please.

[skib]

Rethink your question in order to give clearity.

[turbeau]

this is the first install ive done and i dont know much about the electrical system of the car. Its a 71 240z with an L28 SU put in.

right after i put the motor in i started it and it revved to 4K and ran for 2 seconds then shut off.

now when i turn the key it makes a loud click from the engine compartment and the lights all go dim. then thats it. otherwise all the lights work fine so i know its not the battery. i also tried to start it with a jump on but had the same problem.

 

the reason i asked about the distributor is because i heard that the 280z one should be used for this swap, i didnt know how to wire it up so i used the l24 dis.

[blue72]

You can use the L24 dizzy, no problems there. You still haven't told us if the starter now turns the motor over.

When you turn the key do you only hear a click, and the starter does not turn at all?

If that's the case then perhaps it has a problem with the starter itself, the starter solenoid could be frozen, or some other oddball problem involving the starter and ring gear together.

[jasper]

Sounds like a bad battery, poor connections at the battery, or bad starter. My money is on bad connections. The loud click is probably the starter solenoid. The dim lights are either a bad battery/ terminal/ground problem, or locked/ siezed motor causing a high draw on the battery. Disconnect battery, clean terminals,,...check grounds, and make sure engine did not lock up.

[turbeau]

i cleaned the battery terminals and used dielectric grease. sam problem after. its not the battery. i also tried starting it with a jump hooked up but same problem.

on the first key turn it cranks? twice then nothing

second attempt is 1 crank then nothing

third try is a half crank

fourth is just the click

 

how do i check if the motor is seized? it came from a running car 2 months ago.

[Daeron]

Pull all the spark plugs. Get a 1/2 inch breaker bar or ratchet, and a 27mm socket (i THINK) and try to rotate it using the crankshaft bolt. Don't mandhandle it! without the spark plugs in the only thing you are working against are the valve springs, and the force they exert is MINIMAL so the engine should spin freely by hand. If it doesn't, you have a problem. Pull the cam cover off and look at the valvetrain and timing chain.

 

Try removing the starter and spinning the engine as described above, while inspecting the flywheel ring gear through the starter hole.

 

If all that checks out OK, try getting a pencil and probing each piston through the spark plug hole checking for issues.. but if all that checks out and you are still binding chances are something is seriously blown.

 

 

 

IF the engine spins freely, try using a screwdriver to "hotwire" the starter by bridging the connection between little solenoid spade terminal, and big red battery terminal. If THAT magically starts it like butter, then you need to install a new ignition keyswitch, or a pushbutton starter switch, or a relay signaled by the existing solenoid wire to activate the starter.

[Hyuri]

i cleaned the battery terminals and used dielectric grease. sam problem after. its not the battery.

Those aren't the only steps required to rule out the battery. Do you know what's the voltage across the terminals? What kind of cranking amperage is your battery providing? Is the battery fully charged? Is it still good?

 

Have you checked your grounds? All of them? What's the resistance of your battery cables? Are any of the other electrical connections in the car corroded or dirty?

 

Pull the battery and the starter and take them to Autozone, have them tested.

 

Attached are two diagnostic pages for starter problems, from an '83 and a '76 FSM. Hopefully you'll find them useful.

[240z!!!]

Pull all the spark plugs. Get a 1/2 inch breaker bar or ratchet, and a 27mm socket (i THINK) and try to rotate it using the crankshaft bolt. Don't mandhandle it! without the spark plugs in the only thing you are working against are the valve springs, and the force they exert is MINIMAL so the engine should spin freely by hand. If it doesn't, you have a problem. Pull the cam cover off and look at the valvetrain and timing chain.

 

Try removing the starter and spinning the engine as described above, while inspecting the flywheel ring gear through the starter hole.

 

If all that checks out OK, try getting a pencil and probing each piston through the spark plug hole checking for issues.. but if all that checks out and you are still binding chances are something is seriously blown.

 

 

 

IF the engine spins freely, try using a screwdriver to "hotwire" the starter by bridging the connection between little solenoid spade terminal, and big red battery terminal. If THAT magically starts it like butter, then you need to install a new ignition keyswitch, or a pushbutton starter switch, or a relay signaled by the existing solenoid wire to activate the starter.

 

 

x2....if the engine isnt locked up it sounds like your flywheel or starter gear is messed up...or some bad grounds

[skib]

on the bad battery/connections i had a similar problem, the battery cables where corroded inside the insulation. even with a new battery it did nothing untill i replaced the cables.

[Daeron]

on the bad battery/connections i had a similar problem, the battery cables where corroded inside the insulation. even with a new battery it did nothing untill i replaced the cables.

 

10-15 bucks is cheap for two new cables. Never assume the cables you have on the car are good enough until they have proven themselves.

[Rustyfriend]

Not to neglect some of the issues described above, but the "ticking" noise has happened to me before at the turn of the ignition. The deal was a bad connection from the ignition to the starter (its that little wire that plugs into the top of the starter). Test that wire for conductivity and replace it if needed.

[Daeron]

Not to neglect some of the issues described above, but the "ticking" noise has happened to me before at the turn of the ignition. The deal was a bad connection from the ignition to the starter (its that little wire that plugs into the top of the starter). Test that wire for conductivity and replace it if needed.

 

IF the engine spins freely, try using a screwdriver to "hotwire" the starter by bridging the connection between little solenoid spade terminal, and big red battery terminal. If THAT magically starts it like butter, then you need to install a new ignition keyswitch, or a pushbutton starter switch, or a relay signaled by the existing solenoid wire to activate the starter.

 

That is what I described here I had it happen in my Subaru, and out of my own ingenuity I simply went to the boneyard, grabbed a few Bosch relays and a couple plugs, and set up a relay that was fed power from a fused wire I ran off the battery cable. The relay was signaled by the solenoid wire already on the vehicle, grounded at the mount of the plug, and the output went to the solenoid.

 

What happens in this situation is, the electrical pathway between the battery and the solenoid terminal has somehow gained ALOT of resistance ofver the years. Could be a solder joint, could be a joint between two wires, could be one of the contacts in your switch, or it could be an aggregate of ALL of those places and more. The solenoid isn't a VERY high amperage device, but the Bosch relay is FAR FAR less. The deficient circuit will almost certainly supply enough electromotivation to activate the relay for the next 100 years, and the relay power supply wire and wire to the starter are brand new, out in the open, installed by yourself, and easy to troubleshoot.

 

I drove my Subaru for over a year with an occasional click, click, click, Start! that eventually turned into buying a new starter when it failed completely. The new starter worked great for all of 24 hours, then I was back to square one. Through it all, the screwdriver start was my backup. There were times when I decided against driving it from my house because it was difficult to start; but I never missed work or got stranded. I installed the relay the day after the starter, and never had a problem again. No relays blown, no fuses blown, starts every time.

[turbeau]

Thank you guys for all the suggestions.

on the first attempt of starting it the belts move so i dont think its siezed. i checked the battery and it is charged, about 11.68. i checked both starters, l24 and l28, and they spun but the shaft did not move out all the way. tomarrow i will put a new starter on. could that be it? i will also buy new battery cables.

i hope all of your cars are running better than mine, go enjoy your Zs!

[RTz]

i checked the battery and it is charged, about 11.68.

 

That is not representative of a fully charged, healthy battery. In fact, its fully discharged. It should read closer 12.6-12.8.

[Daeron]

That is not representative of a fully charged, healthy battery. In fact, its fully discharged. It should read closer 12.6-12.8.

 

 

+1

[turbeau]

thanks again. you guys were right, the battery was not charged enouph to start the motor. i had the battery and starter checked at Kragen and both were good, although battery was very low. i charged it up.

 

new problem! the motor turns over but now there is a fuel problem, no fuel pumping. i have a mechanical fuel pump. i detached the hose to the filter and started the car, there was extremely low to no suction. i also tried to start the car with a fuel pressure gauge wired in near the carb and it did not move. could the fuel pump be out?