tonycharger72 Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 Awesome stuff Mark & ezzzzzzz, thanks for sharing your information!!! 280zx inners & Stock Z tie-rod ends & S80 Volvo and Stock Z tie-rod ends are a workable solution!!! I can get S80 Volvo rack ends locally from the dealer for a princely sum of $250/side - damm dealership prices !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 I managed to get my hands on a 280zx Inner Rack-End to see how it would fit, This is a pic of it - its M16x1.5 thread (rack end) and M14x1.5 (Tie-Rod End) and 151mm, & it is a very good fit, can basically replicate the stock Z Inner-Rack-End and Tie-Rod-End length as seen below!!! This seems almost identical to the S80 Volvo Rack-End except that the Volvo is 141mm in length (which is probably more ideal as the shorter length should allow more adjustment!!!) This is an approximate measurement between the LCA pivot's on the crossmember, The housing for the 280zx Inner Rack end is a touch smaller than the Subaru Rack end, so you need to remove approximately 11mm of the end of the Subaru Rack to reach 600mm total width of the Subaru Rack & 280zx Inner Pivot Points (results may vary depending on the Subaru Rack you are using!!!), BUT..............and this is a big one..............the thread of the 280zx & S80 Inner Rack-Ends are M16x1.5, the end of the Subaru Rack is 23mm, and on one side of the Subaru Rack it tapers down to 20mm, as seen here, So once you cut of the ends (11mm) and cut out your new thread to suit these Inner's you are left with very little side-wall on the Subaru Rack, like 2mm/side and 4mm total, down from 4.5mm/side, which is where you are before you hack 11mm of the end of the Subaru Rack - thats losing quite a bit of meat by opening up the Subaru Rack to suit these larger rack ends, See the difference in Stock Subaru Rack-Ends and 280zx Rack-Ends, Therefore, I really don't know if it would be the wisest Idea to use these Rack-Ends, I think it would be better if it was possible to find a Rack-End that was just as small in overall length, 140-150mm, but kept that M14x1.5 thread on the Subaru Rack-End, and still managed to keep the M14x1.5 so you could run you stock Z Tie-Rod Ends, otherwise I would be cutting down some other Rack-End to suit the Z Tie-Rod Ends that way you don't have to hack a M16 thread into the Subaru Rack!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 There we go !!! Rack End Honda LEGEND OUT R/L 53521-SP0-004 Products Visitors:8 Original Image Item:Rack End Honda LEGEND OUT R/L 53521-SP0-004Packing:Your Packing Or Neutral PackingDelivery:20-60 Days according your items and quantityMarket:America and EuropeQ C:ISO9000:2000 & TS16949 Sign up for our free newsletter for new products Detailed Product Description or O.E.M. No.DescriptionModelYear53521-SP0-004 53521-SPO-004OUT R/L M14*1.5 M14*1.5 RHT L-140mmLEGEND II (KA7) LEGEND II COUPE (KA8)01.1991-02.1996 01.1991-02.1996 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZeder Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Ok I found this also - Ok if the S80 rack ends the 141mm long try these units for 150mm ie same spec (well 1mm shorter) than the 280zx rack end and are for a Volvo XC90 or the S60 units which are 157mm long....options options....assuming you have room for the M16.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZeder Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 will a M12 inner thread work? see this honda unit if so 159mm long with M14x1.5 ie same as the S30 or S130 tie rod (s130 units are 10mm longer so you could get away with the 140mm unit stated above you will be after the S130 aka 280zx Series I non powered rack outer tie rod - same design as the S30 just 10mm longer) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 I got my hands on a non-geniune Honda Legend Rack-End but it was 10mm longer and had M12 threads - this was the only one they had listed for the 1991-1996 Legend! I called the local Honda dealership and they actually had the same part # as the one shown a few posts before, however its not on the shelf, it was really expensive and they want payment up front, not all that keen on purchasing it as have my doubts that it will actually fit!!! I was just wondering though, What if you used a different tie-rod end, something like this, Short Tie-Rod end, There appears to be alot more choice for Rack-Ends if you go to a longer size - 180-200mm, My only concern with this is the shape of the stock Z Tie-Rod end, it is notched, will changing to a straight Rack-End/Tie-Rod end effect steering geometry? A Local Steering place said the only thing I would have to worry about when changing from bent to straight is Sway-Bar clearance and that is usually the only reason why Tie-Rod ends are notched, However, as people are actually running straight Rack-End/Tie-Rod Ends with their Subaru/Z conversion I am assuming this isn't an issue? Anyone with some insight as to what effects, if any, there will be from going to a straight rack-end/tie-rod end from the bend Z design? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 If I understand your question (the slight bend in the tie-rods) correctly, then the answer is no. This arm could have any number of shapes, the true centerline of the tie-rod is from pivot centerline-to-pivot centerline, regardless if there is a 90º bend in it, a loop de loop, or a plain ol' straight rod. Bends will make no difference. Now, you will have to lengthen the tie-rod ends by screwing them out, and 3/4" is a good bit of length (but I do not remember what the total thread depth is to begin with. From Mr Oxendale - thats handy to know !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 I just went and measured the distance between the Subaru Lower Control arms - this was from a mid-90's Legacy, 685mm between Lower Control Arm Pivot points - oh dear............. I also measured the distance on a Mazda Miata MX5 crossmember - the distance there was 635mm, but that was the inner most edge (not the centre of the bolt), the reason for this is that the Miata crossmember LCA pivot points are slotted for Camber Adjustment, holes are 25-30mm wide, But could take an estimate - use 12mm bolts, divide by 2 to get the centreline - 635 + 12 = 647mm approximately!!! Either option in their stock form is way, way, way to wide! A different rack-end will possibly make it easier to move the pivot point in because the housing isn't as big, but either way you will have to remove meat from the end of either rack to get it back down to the 597-600mm width of the Z LCA Rack & Pivot Points!!! However, the MX5 rack does not taper at the rack ends like the Subaru one does, it would be a lot easier to hack off the required amount and simply rethread to suit an appropriate rack-end, with the MX5 rack there would still be just as much meat on the side-walls of the rack-end that the factory deemed was appropriate, seems like a safer bet.................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 Incase anyone is interested! Rack-Ends from a Widebody Camry - should be years 1991-1995 approximately, when they changed from boxy 80's shape to round early 90's shape! Rack ends are 151mm approx and have M14x1.5 threads - so basically fine for this conversion to use the Stock Z outter tie-rod ends!!! Therefore, if you can't relocated the LCA's on the stock crossmember to suit the Subaru racks ends, or dont care...............just "bolt" it together, But from memory, when you bolt the Subaru rack in it sits higher than the stock rack, which means you could raise up the LCA pivot points, this gives you room to then move out the LCA's, as a rough guide you should be able to get away with moving the LCA pivot point out 15mm (which there should be easily enough meat on the crossmember for!!!) to properly align things - or get them closer.............. Get bit of camber as an added benefit !!! The aformentioned rack ends should make this a bolt together proposition for you all!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Great find! Thanks for that effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260zShooter Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Incase anyone is interested! Rack-Ends from a Widebody Camry - should be years 1991-1995 approximately, when they changed from boxy 80's shape to round early 90's shape! Rack ends are 151mm approx and have M14x1.5 threads - so basically fine for this conversion to use the Stock Z outter tie-rod ends!!! Therefore, if you can't relocated the LCA's on the stock crossmember to suit the Subaru racks ends, or dont care...............just "bolt" it together, But from memory, when you bolt the Subaru rack in it sits higher than the stock rack, which means you could raise up the LCA pivot points, this gives you room to then move out the LCA's, as a rough guide you should be able to get away with moving the LCA pivot point out 15mm (which there should be easily enough meat on the crossmember for!!!) to properly align things - or get them closer.............. Get bit of camber as an added benefit !!! The aformentioned rack ends should make this a bolt together proposition for you all!!! For what application would this apply? The Subaru or Mazda? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 Well either really (the Miata rack has 14x1.5 thread from memory?) The Toyota Wide-body rack end and the Datsun stock Tie-Rod ends together give you the correct length and this combo should just screw right into either rack! The Miata Rack and the Subaru Rack are about the same length - the Miata rack has the benefit of being a uniform thickness on the shaft ends, so if you do shorten it you aren't threading into thinner shaft sections like you are with the Subaru Rack, however there is a few members here who have done this with the Subaru Rack and they are still alive, so it appears to be not that bad!!! Please note though, the Miata rack has different part numbers for the rack ends - I have heard that the Miata has different length rack ends, when I measured a Series 2 Miata Rack I couldn't actually tell there was a difference in rack-end length, if there was - it is small!!! Either rack though will place the inner pivot points of the rack ends further out then the stock Z LCA pivots if stock racks are used! BUT............I am in the process of installing RX7 gear into my Z, the tie-rod end and ball-joint alignment on the spindle is a good 25mm out of plane - which was odd - but thats how it comes from the factory I honestly wouldn't be hacking up your rack - I would be just bolting it together and then maybe moving the inner pivot points out to suit the rack - then maybe, maybe installing camber plates to modify the affects of moving the LCA's outwards - but I don't really think it is worth the effort of pulling apart the steering rack and cutting and re-threading the ends, to much money!!! Another option is Electric PS.................. http://zclub.net/forum/hybrid-z-cars...-steering.html Items used are from a Vauxhall Corsa (Holden Barina for Aussies) and allows use of the stock steering rack, rack-ends and tie-rod ends - plus no expensive fluid lines from the rack - and there is a variable speed control so at high speeds the rack acts like a manual one!!! Can grab these units complete of EBAY UK for about $200US from memory! Just search - "Corsa Electric Power Steering" - that should get you started!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260zShooter Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Incase anyone is interested! Rack-Ends from a Widebody Camry - should be years 1991-1995 approximately, when they changed from boxy 80's shape to round early 90's shape! Rack ends are 151mm approx and have M14x1.5 threads - so basically fine for this conversion to use the Stock Z outter tie-rod ends!!! Therefore, if you can't relocated the LCA's on the stock crossmember to suit the Subaru racks ends, or dont care...............just "bolt" it together, But from memory, when you bolt the Subaru rack in it sits higher than the stock rack, which means you could raise up the LCA pivot points, this gives you room to then move out the LCA's, as a rough guide you should be able to get away with moving the LCA pivot point out 15mm (which there should be easily enough meat on the crossmember for!!!) to properly align things - or get them closer.............. Get bit of camber as an added benefit !!! The aformentioned rack ends should make this a bolt together proposition for you all!!! would this apply to the Subaru Forester rack too? I have looked a the above mentioned Toyota inner rod end on Ebay. But they look to be as long as the stock Forester inner tie rod ends. Am I looking at something wrong? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts-Accessories_Car-Truck-Parts-Accessories__INNER-TIE-ROD-END-TOYOTA-CAMRY-AVALON-SIENNA-4550339055_W0QQitemZ220296349025QQddnZPartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQadiZ2865QQddiZ2811QQadnZCarQ20Q26Q20TruckQ20PartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?_trksid=p4506.m20.l1116 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted March 6, 2009 Author Share Posted March 6, 2009 Let me get some pics of it so you know what you are looking for, Also - most of this sorta of stuff might not be a true and accurate representation of the actual item sold, I have seen sometimes they just put up the same pic of a "Dampner and springs" but name them differently to suit the specific applications, That tie-rod end looks like the stock Subaru rack end! would this apply to the Subaru Forester rack too? To be honest, I have seen Subaru Racks from a Legacy, Forester, WRX from years 1993 to 2004 or so, and they kinda all look the same - have a look at the various pictures posted of the Subaru Rack on here, see if yours compares - there is lengths and thread sizes posted in this thread which should tell you if your rack is any different! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islanddozer Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Why mess arround. This is your steering we are talking about. $225 for reman out of the box for my 82zxt. Wouldn't trust my life or others to say a few bucks. My 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garvice Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Why mess arround. This is your steering we are talking about. $225 for reman out of the box for my 82zxt. Wouldn't trust my life or others to say a few bucks.My 2 cents Because the S30 didn't come with power steering, so we can't buy something out of the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted March 6, 2009 Author Share Posted March 6, 2009 Why mess arround. This is your steering we are talking about. $225 for reman out of the box for my 82zxt. Wouldn't trust my life or others to say a few bucks.My 2 cents Be good if you could just bolt in the rack from the 280zx, but it requires to much quick thinking, left is right and right is left would get a bit tiring after awhile !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I just thought of something. Has anyone thought about installing a ZX rack upside down? What I mean is using a LHD ZX power rack in a RHD S30 and a RHD ZX power rack in a LHD S30? I have no idea about lengths or mounting but could this work? Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islanddozer Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Because the S30 didn't come with power steering, so we can't buy something out of the box. I have a 260z with manual rack and pinion and have always liked the quick response with its steering. The only advantage I can see with going to power r&p is when you are at a stop and need to steer. Am I missing something else here ? I ask cause that rack I picked up for 280zxt, is manual because I didn't want to loose a few hp's to run power steer pump. here is rack part # for 260z Related Parts1974 NISSAN 260Z 2.6L 2565cc L6 2x1BBL ® [L26] : Steering : Rack and Pinion Complete UnitPriceCoreTotalACDELCO Part # 3612101 {#88990629} GEAR,STRG (Remanufactured-RACK & PINION-MANUAL)* Non-stock item--shipping delayed up to 3 business days $219.89$55.00$274. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted March 6, 2009 Author Share Posted March 6, 2009 Thanks for posting that mate - I was completely lost of where to actually get rack ends for the stock rack! Just get a new rack!!! When my car had the stock 195/70-14 tyres on it PS was completely unwarranted, however, when I changed offsets and ran bigger tyres the steering effort became quite heavy at low speeds - the car went from feeling like PS really wasnt required to being something that would be nice to have! I was running 205's and 215's on the front of my Z with about a 30mm increase in track - there is people with a lot wider tyres and track increases than that on this board !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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