240hoke Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Yea I wasn't saying you needed to change for sure just wanted to make sure you did some clacs, I was thinking it was taller then what you have. I believe my first I/C core was 24x12x4" Although one issue is that taller is really better for a horizontal core i/c (with proper end tanks). Most of the heat transfer takes places in the first couple inches of the tube, due to the higher temperature difference between the charge air and the outside air. This is the main reason why vertical flow cores are technically more efficient, shorter passages and more of them. Will this make a noticeable difference on a mild street car...probably not However regardless of what core your choose when designing your setup keep in mind how you are going to duct air to the i/c. You really need some type of duct on the i/c to prevent air from "spilling" around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 I haven't ditched my current plan yet, I'm just reconsidering it. Up until this thread I was convinced I had a really good setup. 240hoke's comments and Maximum Boost just got me thinking about it again, that's all. I think the more short tubes vs. fewer longer tubes argument is mostly about pressure drop. More short tubes will have less resistance to flow, assuming the end tanks are designed right. If it was purely a heat exchange issue then you cold say that hot air will simply travel a couple of inches farther down the tube where it is cooler and exchange the heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 However regardless of what core your choose when designing your setup keep in mind how you are going to duct air to the i/c. You really need some type of duct on the i/c to prevent air from "spilling" around it. I have already fabbed a piece of sheet metal to block off the area under the radiator/intercooler to prevent spillage under the car. I'm also going to seal between the radiator and intercooler to prevent air from going around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 No the tube issue is pretty much purely about heat transfer. For the same area shorter tubes are more efficient. The bare bones basics of it is that heat transfer is driven by the difference in temperatures. I really dont feel like getting out my heat transfer book to prove it right now with fancy math and pictures Ducting the spoiler and between the i/c and radiator will help but arent going to do as much as duct work in front of the i/c. You need to "catch" the air thats in front of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddle Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Ducting the spoiler and between the i/c and radiator will help but arent going to do as much as duct work in front of the i/c. You need to "catch" the air thats in front of it. Like this Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted March 7, 2009 Author Share Posted March 7, 2009 Cool. You don't have to break out a book to convince me that heat transfer is about differences in temperature . I am sure that in practice you and Mr. Bell are correct that shorter/more tubes produce a more efficient intercooler. I'm not going to argue with experience. As far as ducting goes, I'm not done yet. I think that in a global sense, including the hood and spoiler, if you block air from going around the intercooler as much as possible then you are producing the "better" or "best" scenario in Bell's diagrams that Nigel posted. I think of the hood as the upper boundary and the block-off panel I installed as the lower boundary. I need to seal the hood to the upper radiator support and the block-off panel is already sealed to the lower radiator support. I'm going to add an oil cooler below the intercooler and then seal around both so that air cannot go around. Cheers, Ross No the tube issue is pretty much purely about heat transfer. For the same area shorter tubes are more efficient. The bare bones basics of it is that heat transfer is driven by the difference in temperatures. I really dont feel like getting out my heat transfer book to prove it right now with fancy math and pictures Ducting the spoiler and between the i/c and radiator will help but arent going to do as much as duct work in front of the i/c. You need to "catch" the air thats in front of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Actually, compressor size/engine size ratio and amount of boost plays a part in the configuration for an intercooler. A stock or near stock size compressor section should have the tubes going sideways (longer) to get rid of as much heat as possible. Huge compressors which don't heat the air as much for the same boost are better off with shorter tubes oriented vertically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradyzq Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 It hasn't been explicitly mentioned in this thread, but having a vertical flow intercooler, aside from having MUCH more flow (HP) capability than a horizontal flow core of the same dimensions (umm, well usually, unless they're square...), will also allow you to have your endtanks feeding into and leading out of the intercooler on the same side, so you won't have to worry about charge piping across the front of the engine. Of course this is not an issue if you find a crossflow or twincam head! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 One of these days, I need to pull out my HT text book and figure out how much heat is transferred to the airflow inside of a warm pipe 2.5" pipe per inch of distance. I don't think it's that much, but I need the math to prove it. A smooth pipe with a large diameter relative to it's length, with relatively high flow velocities, can't possibly be an efficient heat transfer device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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